talkmagic.co.uk

At http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic11323.php&highlight= Goldfish has posted a most interesting topic, asking "What" is misdirection? It's a very important thing for us to know and more important, for us to understand, but I'd like to step a bit to the side of that thought and garner a conversation on a related point; What is and Where is the ILLUSION or TRICK?

When we do the Cups & Balls we can see where the deliberate applause cues are in the effect but that's not the Illusion... the illusion is how we, as the performer, capture the attention of our audience and bring them into that demension in which mundane vanishes and no longer exists within their mind and thus, they become captured by both, their imagination and what it is we have chosen to share with them.

Bear in mind, we can create this affect on the public simply in how we exploit the words chosen in conversation, how we sit or stand, how we are dressed and the confidence we either exuded or betray.

To me the "Magic" we do has little to nothing to do with the tricks but how we transform the lead that we are in real life and most importantly, within our minds; into the gold that's seen and admired by our patrons during our performance. More important, I feel that we earn the status of "Master Magician" when we can control that golden expression to the level of it being natural and apart of who we are e.g. the Illusion is brought to life and we are seen as being "enchanting" gents or ladies.

Beleive it or not, this element is part of our Misdirection and for those that work on the psychic side of things, it is part of our pre-show. It is one of our most valuable tools and yet, it's rarely considered or discussed. So, given Goldfish's pearl of introspection and the particpation we've seen therein I thought I'd lend premise for going a few steps further.

I look forward to seeing what others have to say on this subject.

There is a world of difference between 'clever person with a bunch of cards' and magician.

Watched the brothers grim (ok not their real names but I was personally disappointed) on friday night doing tricks from the bible. Their first one with creation was nice, but after that I got cheesed off. It was a bunch of nice, and occasionally gross, clever tricks. I found no mystery or magic in what they were doing. Shame. Like them personally however, just don't like the style.

Now I don't have a preference for David Blaine, and I know others on this forum dislike the chap (see one of the other postings) but he does have a sense of the magician around him, or at least a mystery as to how he performs his magic. Even his take on the self tying shoe lace is done with a sense of 'hey guys, this is magic.'

Bit where abouts the illusion occurs is a bit of a mystery. for me, the first time I did a false cut I got confused. What did my hands just do? And after a few weeks (groan) my classic pass is heading the same way. Does anyone else experience a point whereby they are half sure that they saw their hands do something they weren't expecting? At this point I know that if I show a spec such a trick they will find for themselves an illusion...

What I find most interesting is the fact that the most simple, basic card trick (let's say "do as I do" - self-working, piece of cake) can take on an almost miraculous quality to the lay person when it is presented to them by a magician who knows the value of great presentation. Likewise the smartest flourish involving amazing sleights can be turned into a pile of doggy doo-doo by an amatuer hobbyist who wouldn't know presentation if it jumped up and presented itself to him.

Someone far wiser than me (can't remember who right now) said that we are still looking for a presentation worthy of the simplest trick. This is true. Think about it - magicians are bringing the impossible to life. How would you present an routine if you could *really* read minds? Then *that's* how you should be presenting your routine. And *that's* real magic.

And *that's* all I have to say on the matter.

Thats exactly how I play it. How would I feel if I could really do it? I try to remember what it felt like the first time i presented an illusion, and use that as inspiration.

I did my first contact mind reading a couple of days ago in a pub. Even amazed myself locating a playing card hidden in a carpark.

Fantastic!

byron0512 wrote:Thats exactly how I play it. How would I feel if I could really do it? I try to remember what it felt like the first time i presented an illusion, and use that as inspiration.

I did my first contact mind reading a couple of days ago in a pub. Even amazed myself locating a playing card hidden in a carpark.

Fantastic!

Try to remember what it felt like the first time you saw a particular illusion and how that affected you. That's the magic we want to recapture and give to our audiences. It's like sex... we are always chasing after the magic that first experience had for us... magic is the same thing, just a different set of tricks...

It's like sex... we are always chasing after the magic that first experience had for us... magic is the same thing, just a different set of tricks...

Dare I say that I have just passed the 15 year of marriage to my wife. We never slept with anyone before that. Sex at first was tricky (there's honesty for you) and FOR MOST PEOPLE IT IS.... MESSY AND COMPLEX. But most people claim it isn't.

And it sex gets better year on year. There are certain forum rules however that forbid further development of such a subject and don't bother to PM me cos I ain't given details of what happens in the four square walls of my home. teehee

But to answer your comment, Perhaps thats why I am always pushing back the 'magic envelope' and discovering something new.

hahaha lol - don't be offended craig - it was a point well made

I have actually found out - also in reply to what byron0512 said - that the best presentation of your moves comes out when you do a sleight in front of a mirror and even you get confused (the first times I did a DL I was flabbergasted myself! ).
The way you present a trick comes with sleights, but the way you present yourself is the most difficult step.
Personally, I have some problems with it (I've been doing magic just for about a year), most of all with introducing myself (see my thread "your favourite line") to people and convincing them I'm a magician.


I find it rather disturbing though that sometimes when I'm trying really hard I get no feedback, but when I'm there basically chilling with some friends' friends I get people screaming around!!!

Just experience I guess...

Edoardo

Edoardo...

Firstly, I can relate to what it feels like watching yourself for the first time. Many years ago I saw a video tape of a Tv interview I'd done and it blew my mind in that I couldn't catch any of my moves even in knowing when and where they were done. That's when I fell in love with using video for studying and critiquing my work (in those days the "VCR" weighed about 40 lbs and the tape was 3/4" wide without a cassette)

As to approaching folks and "convincing" them that your a magician... I don't think that's the goal. As per my original post (and the theme of this thread) our objective is to BE a magickle entity long before the "tricks" come into the picture. So rather than using slights and our ability to juggle and manipulate items with our hands, we are looking at the art of communication as the source of our "magic" and how, both verbally and non-verbally, to convey the fact that we are more than the typical mortal.

Many of us dress in all black, thinking this makes us mysterious. Some have unique beards while others retain a clean-cut look. We have out Goths and then there's the Cary Grant looking gents... the list goes on and on but finding the "role" as it were, that's best suited to who we are as an individual and who we want to be seen as on stage or within the craft... this is where the magic really happens.

Yes, I'm trying to not say too much for an important reason... I want you guys to think about it. There are no right or wrong answers, but the purpose behind the exercise is to help you look at your own actions or in-action and how you must move forward in creating the ultimate illusion (as I call it) -- the image of being a living-breathing magical entity.

This is a very difficult level of personna and psyche to develope but it is not impossible. Certain of us have the ability to walk into a room full of strangers and near instantly captivate them without doing a single effect or saying a single word... and most of us don't look remotely close to a Hollywood leading man or lady. We simple exude a sense about us that causes total strangers to say, with all confidence "that guy/gal is magical."

So, how do we get there?

themagicwand wrote:the smartest flourish involving amazing sleights can be turned into a pile of doggy doo-doo by an amatuer hobbyist who wouldn't know presentation if it jumped up and presented itself to him.

I am sorry to say but I am quite offended by this line, if you look through this forum you will see that many members consider themselves to be "amatuer hobbyists" and do not do Doggy DooDoo tricks, they tend to present them very well indeed. I just think you are being overly harsh on the lesser accomplished magicians. Just remember you were a novice once! or were you born with supernatural powers?

I do not wish to cause offence to any fellow human, but I had to get it off my chest, maybe I am reading too much into this, but it is my opinion.

leighton wrote:I do not wish to cause offence to any fellow human, but I had to get it off my chest, maybe I am reading too much into this, but it is my opinion.

I do apologise leighton if I offended you (or indeed anybody else). It was not my intention. I merely wanted to make the point that the dividing line between a professional and an amateur has more to do with presentation than magical ability. Perhaps my wording was overly harsh and let me down. Please accept my apologies.

The dividing line between amateur and professional is tenuous. There have been some very brilliant amateurs (Alex Elmsley. Johnny Ramsay etc) as there are brilliant professionals. likewise there are poor amateurs and poor professionals. It's really a matter of standards. Mainly it's a case of 'Is the magician PERFORMING the trick' or 'Or is it just a quick throwaway dem. as often happens when some one is asked "Show us a trick." As the professional is (hopefully() working all the time he/she should be a better performer because he has the experience. He has to keep up, we hope his/her standard ALL the time, performance after performance , year after year.
The amateur may not have access to this degree of perfomance time. BUT this 'one must be better than the other' does not necessarily follow. Some amateurs & semi pros do manage to be able to play to audiences with high standard work and with gaps between shows.
In the amateur theatre I have seen & adjudicated a lot of very 'professional' standard work and in the professional theatre seen some very shoddy work. 2 years ago my wife & I walked out of two professional theatre productions at the interval.
You can apply this to our Magic World as well.
It must, therefore, always depend on your pre performance work/rehearsal, your approach to magic & audiences and OF COURSE to Presentation.
As Fred Kaps said, 'Presentation first. method second'.
Allen Tipton

themagicwand wrote:I do apologise leighton if I offended you (or indeed anybody else). It was not my intention. I merely wanted to make the point that the dividing line between a professional and an amateur has more to do with presentation than magical ability. Perhaps my wording was overly harsh and let me down. Please accept my apologies.

Apology well and truly accepted Paul, often reading a post is very different to the person doing the reading than it is for the person doing the writing!

Happy bunnies once again