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Not saying that I'm totally fond of gimmicks and gaffs but it just proves that gimmicks can be so much more effective sometimes.

However, if you pick the right tricks and the right patter, it can just amaze spectators with just a deck of cards. As I've said before, I nearly never do gimmicked tricks but I still get amazing credit and I'm proud of it. I think my patter is totally suited and I try to make the magic happen in the person's hand.

[slightylyofftopic]Just yesterday, I went to my brothers workplace and their were no customers (football match) so I decided to do magic to the staff. All I had was a deck of cards so I just performed card tricks and although I was nervous, because I hadn't done magic in ages, I didn't mess up at all. In fact, I used a few VERY simple tricks like the DL transpositions and the ace assemblies. I did the preparation right in front of my spectator's eyes! Misdirection is amazing!!! I was just talking to him and his friends and like saying stuff like "I'm still waiting for a reaction..." and it just makes them laugh lol and that's perfect misdirection![/slightlyofftopic]

So... I've never had competition with other magicians lol.

Steve

Bite out coin, for example, is an amazing effect. There is no way you could do that without the gimmick (if there is I would love to know ).

Jaws from james bond could i bet

And i do lots of gimmiked stuff but i love True magic too! just gimmiks are faster!

and can do stuff i cant eith due to lack of skill,

or laws of physics...

Out of interest, what does he do with his Svengali?

The reason that I ask is that I've just been learning the Svengali presentation from Get Nyman and it's truly a piece of art as far as this deck goes and it literally KNOCKS SPOTS off any Svengali routine that I've seen before.

I love it when you wind the clockwork deck up and then drop a battery out of the bottom of a single card. Pure genius!

I can imagine it now if you watched his routine and then took his deck and produced a battery from the bottom, handed it all back for him to explain

The great thing about true sleights is the speed at which you are able to do so many tricks. Start organising your tricks into mini-routines, so that next time he pulls out a gimmick coin or an ID or something, smile with the rest of them then pull 5 totally different tricks, one after the other - BAMBAMBAMBAMBAM!

Then smile at him and ask, "oh, sorry, would you like a chance to do your trick again?"

Also, learn some coin penetration tricks - that way you can encourage people to ask "can I inspect that coin?" and watch him squirm, whilst you perform infusion/sinful/passing/piercing thru and and everything out for keeps.

But most of all, I would say... don't sweat the small stuff. You know you're better. When he runs out of gimmicks he'll get bored and take up origami.

Ya I hope he runs out of gimmicks. Then again there is a ton of them out there lol.

I remember after watching David Blaine perform that trick in the jail where the man picked a card and the queen of spade was holding the card he picked. Shortly after I saw it of corse I had to do it haha. And I remember the guy stole it from me and did it to people saying he invented it. A couple nights later a bunch of people came over to hang out the same ones he did the trick too and I played the video of Blaine doing it and they knew that guy was full of sh it and didnt invent nothing haha. OOooooh good times. I miss the good old days.

I must inform the gentleman from Bournemouth that the Andy Nyman svengali routine cannot possibly be on a par with the Mark Lewis svengali routine which is the best in existence.

With regard to the skills or otherwise of the two protagonists in question it is of course hard to comment without seeing either of them perform but if laymen consistently say that one is better than the other then regretfully that must be the case. I would have thought that the verdict had already been rendered.

With regard to self working material or sleight of hand I am afraid that is completely irrelevant since audiences shouldn't know you are using sleight of hand anyway. Art that hides art you know.

If fact sleight of hand used incorrectly can actually be detrimental if you are not careful.

There is an old saying in magic -"its the effect that counts" In other words the method you use to obtain that effect is of no significance whatever. It is merely a tool. What comes out of the other end of the sausage machine (as Billy Mc'comb used to put it) is what matters.

Very often the simple tricks are the best. I learned all my best material from children's books. I am completely ruthless over methods. I am extremely skilled at sleight of hand but if I think a DF card will get me a better effect I will use that. I will use a subtlety rather than a sleight if I deem that in the context of an individual trick the subtlety is the better method.

The key to getting good reactions with magic is not the trick anyway. It is YOU and how you present YOURSELF as an artist. It is not the trick which makes the magician but rather the magician that makes the trick. The trick is merely a peg to hang your personality on. It is of course a good thing to have strong pegs and I will concede that.

You patter and presentation is the most important thing. And your knowledge of psychology comes a close second. Along with your knowledge of people.

Your sleight of hand ability comes last. Sorry.

again I say it

I HATE GIMMICKS!!!

Why do you hate gimmicks so much Mini?

I don't think gimmicks are really a cop out, I think it takes some guts. If you get caught with a gimmick then look like an idiot. If you get caught doing a sleight then, well you just need more practice, and it's probably not so embarrassing.

From what you have said in the past, Mini, I would say you were probably quite scared of using gimmicks in case you get caught? Is this correct?

Mark Lewis wrote:You patter and presentation is the most important thing. And your knowledge of psychology comes a close second. Along with your knowledge of people.

Your sleight of hand ability comes last. Sorry.

Listen to Mark, he knows of what he speaks. Some of the very best sleight of hand artists in world use gimmicks. To misquote former president bush, Its the effect, stupid.

From what I've seen of your video posts Mini, I recollect that you have used gimmicks.

As The said Mr Lewis has commented on his Svengali routine, where could the said gentleman from Bournemouth see a demonstration of this self acclaimed miricale of card magic?

MiniMindFreak wrote:again I say it

I HATE GIMMICKS!!!

why hate them? seems a bit of a strong reaction there!

i am one of those people that doesn't use gimmicks, so i know exactly where all this is coming from. met a guy in hull who used a lot of gimmicks and some girl was saying to me "he can do this, can you do this?" and i was like "well, i could, but how about i show you something else, and if you want, you can have a look at my deck afterwards"
she thought i said something else, we had a big laugh.
the other gimmick user dude is actually a really sound fella, we often have discussions over wether gimmicks or sleights are better, and always, ALWAYS it comes down to: it doesn't matter HOW you do anything, all that matters is what the spectater percieves!!!!

I haven't posted in this thread but I figured I might as well . My personal view is that if a certain effect is improved by using a gimmick then you should use the gimmick. As has been said before, it's the effect that counts so if you can improve the effect then you should.

If, on the other hand, a gimmick makes the effect easier but it looks the same or worse to the spectator then you should only use a gimmick if you're not confident about the sleights.

Kati

I am afraid that the gentleman from Bournemouth will have to show me his before I show him mine.

In other words I would like to see a clip of this Nyman thing if such a thing is available on the internet. Then I will show him a clip of mine. You may say how could I know that my routine is superior if I haven't seen the Nyman one? Let us merely say that I am MARK LEWIS and naturally that should be enough. I can modestly say that I am the greatest svengali pitchman in history and my word should be gospel in this matter.

It can certainly be confirmed by people on this very site that I have written the best book on the subject.

As for this Nyman personage working in Hamleys for Marvin it should be noted that at one time I trained Marvin's demonstrators in the use of the svengali deck. Furthermore one of my hot shot young svengali pitchmen years ago was an area manager for Marvin and some of my methods seeped through there as a result of it.

For all I know this Nyman routine may have elements of mine in it although I suppose I must admit that it seems unlikely. Still you never know.

Does his routine utilise my method of spreading the cards? Can you fan the cards with his routine? What about the Stuthard Drop? The Lambert Spread? The Cook spread? The Walker hand spread?

No. Surely not.

Still. I will never know for sure until I see it.

How can this alleged masterpiece be viewed?

It really pains me to say this but Mr Lewis is as good as he claims. Having read his book i can tell you it is a stunning routine.

Well Mr Lewis, I'm not aware of the Nyman example being available on the world webbed wide thing and I can only go by what I have seen with my very own eyes. I have to date not expereinced your own working of this deck but viewed the Nyman treat on his DVD.

I could of course post my rendition of the said routine but that will have to wait until the coming weekend and no, it contains no spreads or other thingies that you mention.

If, what you claim is true and you did in fact train a number of Marvin's magicians then there could well be elements of your work in here but alas I am not familiar with your work at the present time.

Perhaps I should seek out a copy of your pamphlet on the Svengali as it's ages since I last read an International best seller.