Self Tying Shoelace (as seen on David Blaine)

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

Moderators: nickj, Lady of Mystery, Mandrake, bananafish, support

Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 20:37



Demitri wrote:I realize my expletives will be deleted, but with this guy - I can't hold them back. Mods - my apologies in advance.

First and foremost, I think you should cut the "stupid/silly gimmick" stuff. Just because you think you know how something is done, doesn't mean it's suddenly a worthless piece of garbage. Someone (in this case, Jay Noblezada) went through a great deal of work to come up with an effect that they are proud of. Just because the props used may be simplistic, doesn't take away from the hard work and creativity that went into making it.


So you figured out how to do it? Good for you. Now tell me, with 100% honesty that you could have INVENTED it. Tell me without lying that you had thought of this EXACT effect before Jay did. It's easy to cast it off as simplistic, when you know what is going on behind the scenes. But, could you have come up with your method without seeing that one first? Perhaps, but I'm going to say probably not.


Bear that in mind the next time you want to s*** on someone else's work. Why don't you do as others have asked and post a video of your method. Go ahead, and then allow me the honor of calling it s***, saying it's a stupid, silly gimmick, going on at great length about how much you suck, and how selling that would be a waste of my money. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't take that kind of criticism too well.

What makes it stupid, is your own opinion. If a spectator doesn't see the gimmick, he doesn't know there is one. You think it's stupid because you know it's there. It's exactly the same kind of thinking that made me leave my vernet tt on the shelf. "I can see it, so will everyone else". You think it's stupid, so you feel everyone else should think that way, too.

If you don't like the effect - FINE. Tell us you don't like it. Tell us it's not your style. But don't you DARE speak of something as stupid and worthless, and get your dander up when others step forth in an attempt to stop you from braying like a jackass.

As for what the purpose of this forum is - you've already shown that you have no clue. Magic isn't just about getting together and swapping information. We don't condone that, because we respect the men and women who are devoted, creative, inventive, and passionate about the craft of magic. Those who have put a great deal of effort into making something that the rest of us can purchase and use to amaze our own audiences.

We come here to talk to each other about magic - what it means to us, what we're doing with it in our lives. And yes, in some cases we discuss methods, handlings and inventions - but we do so behind closed doors. You said yourself, you meet with other magicians and swap secrets. Do you just pull random people off the streets and tell them how to do an ambitious card routine?

If you're going to stick around here, please bear these things in mind. If this was your invention, I'm sure you'd want people to be respectful when speaking of it. As well, you wouldn't want the method behind it to be publicly available. All we ask is that you give that same respect and consideration to others.


First of all, Im on a "talkMagic" Board... which says
"a great place for magicians to chat!"

2nd.. this part of the board is called
"Support & Tips"

3rd, given 1&2 am i wrong to assume that
this is a place where i could talk to magicians about
tips and ask for support on my personal take on a tricks?

finally i never "bashed" his trick\gimmic or name called
him as you just did to me (how old are you, 12?)
but i did say i felt this simple trick is
NOT WORTH $20 USD
(Easy to master Card miracles is $30 a DVD thats well worth your mony)
and im sure any magician who watched it
was able to figure it out.


i created this topic to see
to see if we can add on to this simple trick to
make it better. asking for any tips or support
(at least, MY version of this trick)

black_stone
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Postby Pitto » May 9th, '06, 20:41

Demitri has shown that he is knowledgeable and skilled and has been on this forum for a long time. why not read his post in the light of: this guy is trying to help me.

Secondly, whatever your "idea" is what if it is correct - you are exposing the method.

Thirdly, Whatever you thought this forum would be it is what it is READ THE RULES.

Again before posting READ THE RULES

Cheers,

Chris Pitt (AKA Pitto)

"If in doubt - be weird" Jay Sankey
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Postby Renato » May 9th, '06, 20:44

black_stone wrote:First of all, Im on a "talkMagic" Board... which says
"a great place for magicians to chat!"


Which it is.

2nd.. this part of the board is called
"Support & Tips"


And if you read the description of this forum from the boards you will notice that it says: Struggling with an effect?Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

Do I really need to explain this?

3rd, given 1&2 am i wrong to assume that
this is a place where i could talk to magicians about
tips and ask for support on my personal take on a tricks?


Compare this with the R&D board description: Research and Developement of new ideas.

You made a mistake. Your errors have been pointed out to you, and explained yet you chose to ignore them. Please just accept that you made a mistake. It happens, you're new to this forum and all that. Just please learn from it, we are trying to set you on the 'right track' when it comes to this forum!

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Postby Renato » May 9th, '06, 20:45

Oh and Pitto, I knew someone would beat me too it again :D!

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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 20:57

i understand that i made a mistake...
but i was pointing out that it was an honest mistake

and i REALLY feel that there was no need for
someone to call me a

"Jackass"

"Stupid"

"worthless"

in light of my mistake... not only that but this person
took things that i said out of context.

if this is the kinda bull(edited by Mods) you people on this board support
then... its your loss

When i chat to other magicians i talk openly about all the secrets i know
i dont sell them off i trade them or i just help other magicians out and show them how its done. thru this method ive learnt LOTS and won the respect of many magicians.

yes, i guess i was wrong in assume this would be a nice place for me
to chat with other magicians but i dont feel that name calling
has any place here... and it blows my mind to see other posters
agree with this guy and his out of context RANT.

black_stone
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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 20:59

Pitto wrote:Demitri has shown that he is knowledgeable and skilled and has been on this forum for a long time. why not read his post in the light of: this guy is trying to help me.


maybe im wrong but,
people who try to help other dont resort to name calling and belittling.

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Postby Renato » May 9th, '06, 21:05

Quite right, it was an honest mistake. And Demitri didn't actually call YOU worthless, or, really, stupid, but just expressing that you thought that the effect or method was worthless and stupid. But maybe that's just me being pedantic. In this instance, you have taken what Demitri has said out of context.

I can't speak for Demitri, but I do know that there has been a fair bit of posting going against forum rules going on recently, and people seem to be tiring of it, hence the creation of the relatively new 'Sinbin' board. Maybe you do chat to magicians about it, but this is a board that can be publically viewed and exposing secrets that are not yours is, I believe, an infringement of IP rights.

This is a friendly forum provided that you stick to the rules. I really don't want this to end up in the Sinbin. Just look at the other boards, see the kinds of conversations that are going on, and then say that this isn't a friendly place. There is some validity to your argument, granted, but still. Take a step back, and do just take this as a lesson. This is a friendly place, honest!

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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 21:14

Demitri wrote:to stop you from braying like a jackass.


Now here we have "Cardza" saying
im taking Demitri's abuse out of context.
(Double team of bullies)

and yet you say this is a friendly board.

YES!, i cannt wait to bulid my posts here so
i can double team a newbies and call them names!
such a fun happy place.

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Postby Renato » May 9th, '06, 21:17

Actually, you did. At no point did Demitri call YOU worthless or stupid as you said he did. I have tried to be polite to you and was only pointing out where you had taken his post out of context, because you had. And yes, this is a friendly place when you abide by the rules.

I can already hear the stomp stomp stomp a moderator on the horizon.

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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 21:29

Cardza wrote:Actually, you did. At no point did Demitri call YOU worthless or STUPID.


but you still ignore that he called me a jackass?
which is even worse.

youd rather sit there and point out, well technicaly he didnt
call you stupid or worthless.

i think its obviouse to anyone reading this that
your just tuning a blind eye to your online buddy/pal

i think your "buddy" purposely/knowingly broke more "Rules"
then i did unintentionally...

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Postby Miles More Magic » May 9th, '06, 21:29

Hi Black_stone,

Perhaps I could explain why you were jumped upon for your post, then I'm sure that you will see we all have a common interest in promoting and performing magic.

As you will know when you joined the forum, you weren't subjected to rubber gloves and thumbscrews to verify you were "genuine".
( Oh dear, I hope I haven't given the Mods ideas :lol: )

This makes the forum free for anyone to browse and use, just like any magic shop.
If you go into a magic shop, however, you wouldn't expect to be able to open the boxes to read the instructions, leaving the shop without buying anything.
Also being free for all, magic forums get people posting things such as " I want to know how this is done, don't want to buy it, tell me how to do it etc.
When you use your cards, you would, I'm sure, have people asking the same sort of things.

So you see, it is because we all enjoy magic so much, that we work to protect ourselves from those that are out to ruin it, not only for us, but more importantly, the spectators.

You seem genuine, and made a genuine mistake. It's happened, it can't be taken back, and at least you know not to do the same again! :lol:

Hopefully you will come to make more posts and be a part of Talk Magic.

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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 21:30

Cardza wrote:I have tried to be polite to you and was only pointing out where you had taken his post out of context,


why not take your time to point out to demitri where he took my
post out of context?

Useful link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonist

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Postby black_stone » May 9th, '06, 21:38

Darrel wrote:Hi Black_stone,

Perhaps I could explain why you were jumped upon for your post, then I'm sure that you will see we all have a common interest in promoting and performing magic.

As you will know when you joined the forum, you weren't subjected to rubber gloves and thumbscrews to verify you were "genuine".
( Oh dear, I hope I haven't given the Mods ideas :lol: )

This makes the forum free for anyone to browse and use, just like any magic shop.
If you go into a magic shop, however, you wouldn't expect to be able to open the boxes to read the instructions, leaving the shop without buying anything.
Also being free for all, magic forums get people posting things such as " I want to know how this is done, don't want to buy it, tell me how to do it etc.
When you use your cards, you would, I'm sure, have people asking the same sort of things.

So you see, it is because we all enjoy magic so much, that we work to protect ourselves from those that are out to ruin it, not only for us, but more importantly, the spectators.

You seem genuine, and made a genuine mistake. It's happened, it can't be taken back, and at least you know not to do the same again! :lol:

Hopefully you will come to make more posts and be a part of Talk Magic.


thanks for the time you took to make this post!
that made me feel a little better...

i made an honest mistake.. i think its obvious to everyone
that i didnt come here with the intent to just tell secrets to
anyone and everyone.

but my beef is with how these members are acting so
poorly and immature to this minor hiccup.

i dont think anyone deserves this kinda of treatment
especially when some one is new... what a welcome.

i dont think this will be a place that i will frequent

Last edited by black_stone on May 9th, '06, 21:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Renato » May 9th, '06, 21:42

Black_stone, considering that I have actually tried to be polite to you here, I really do not see why you are having a go at me so much. I am not ignoring that Demitri called you a jackass. But all it would have taken is you to accept that you'd made a mistake in the first place as opposed to try and fight against the moderator's comments.

I also cannot see how Demitri has taken what you have said out of context. Just because he expressed it in a way that you took offence towards, that does not mean that it is out of context.

Believe me, there have been far worse insults levelled at people than 'jackass' on these boards.

And, despite what you may think, there are people 'on my side'.

I don't want this to become another pointless slanging match. I have tried to be polite and advise you. I think it's best if everyone takes a break from this, cools down and comes back to it another day. I have taken those insults you have thrown at me with a pinch of salt. I am not getting all irate and worked up. Believe it or not, people on these boards do actually help new-comers who have the right attitude.

Is it all right if we draw a line underneath all of this? Read what I have written and then call me a bully. It seems that you have ignored what I have said.

I have been advised by one member to walk away from this, which is what I am doing now.

Last edited by Renato on May 9th, '06, 21:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tomo » May 9th, '06, 21:43

Black_stone, let's forget Demitri for a moment.

This really is a very friendly board, fluffy in fact, and much nicer than a certain board we don;t like to talk about, but it is a public board too. You're not only talking to magicians unless you're in the secrets area, and the public parts are open to Google, too. It's really cool that you've figured out how to do this trick and made your own version. The only thing left is cause and effect. The public see just the effect, not the cause, so literally you're trying to give away the method to produce Blaine's effect. If it was a method producing a completely new effect, that'd be yours to share -- perhaps tying the laces! That would be incredibly cool. Several members would probably buy a trick like that. But would you want someone giving away their version for free and spoiling it?

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