talkmagic.co.uk

I have watched Devo's videos as well as Jeff McBride's. The only thing that makes them extreme is the amount of time involved in practicing them. I agree that it is a maketing ploy to get people to buy it, I don't think "Never Talk To Your Girlfriend Again and Learn these Card Manipulations" would be a wise choice, but thats what these videos are. I study the McBride videos, but I just have no interest in dancing with cards in front of people. I also don't think it is a new AREA of magic, but I also don't think mentalism is it's own AREA in magic any more than close-up or Stage magic are different. Mentalists for the most part are magicians, only the self-important ones cannot admit that. Devo is a magician, and not an Extreme Card Manipulator. Perhaps he is just a lonely guy with nothing else to do but cut cards all day, and props to him for his commitment. He is still a magician.

Mefistofeles wrote:Ok, nice find. I don´t want to offend but I know there is people that hates De´vo and I´m NOT one of them.
XCM might be a lot of marketing but I REALLY DON´T KNOW and I cannot affirm what I´m not sure.
I mean, what you´ve found might be real or might be false because as I said before, he has a lot of haterz.
De´vo´s DVDs material cannot be found anywhere else so if XCM is just marketing then I guess I agree with what he does. And also De´vo doesn´t sell DVDs only, he also gives away a lot of information for free on his websites. I know, some of you may say "hey Mefistofeles, that´s part of the marketing" ok, ok but I have no problem with what he does.
I agree with his marketing and I like his products.

Peace

It is not false. uspto.gov is the ofificial website of the United States Patent and Trademark Office, a branch of the United States government. The information on it is factual. David R. Beyer, the same guy who trademarked the name De'vo Vom Schattenreich also applied for a registered trademark on the term Xtreme Card Manipulation. This isn't an opinion, it is a fact that the US government is officially backing.

The only part of what I posted that is conjecture is the reason why he decided to trademark that term. Anyone who knows anything about business and understands why people trademark names can explain the concept of branding to you. So although there is a very small amount of conjecture, it is very unlikely that I'm wrong about why he chose to register that trademark. There are very few reasons why people register trademarks and branding is the most common one, and is the one that makes the most sense in this case.

Believe what you want, but the fact is that the term XCM is simply a marketing ploy.


Now, as for which more difficult? Regular card manipulation is more challenging. XCM requires extensive practice, but so does card manipulation, so that aspect of it cancels each other out. What makes card manipulation more difficult is that it requires audience control skills, misdirection, and careful attention to all the possible angles your audience might be watching you from. A flourisher doesn't need to worry about where everybody is seated or about how to best misdirect people with one hand while he reaches for the second or third load with the other. He also doesn't need to worry about the timing of his pivot or the angle of his body, or of where people are sitting. A flourisher (or XCM artist) doesn't have to worry about very much at all while performing, he just has to go through the same exact moves he has been doing in his basement all this time without ever needing to worry about changing it up. He isn't trying to hide anything or misdirect anyone and the angles are largely irrelevant. The card manipulating magician has to worry about a lot more and learn to deal with a lot more. A card magician might have to adjust his performance at the last minute upon realizing that somebody added an extra row of seats to the theater and ruined his angles; or, he might have to change the rest of his routine at the last minute when he realizes the load he needs next fell off. He might need to adjust his way of performing to make up for the presense of a camera or an unexpected guest backstage. Therefore, card manipulation is far more difficult than XCM.

To put it in simpler terms, XCM/flourishing requires only manual dexterity and extensive practice whereas card productions and other magic based card manipulations require manual dexterity, extensive practice, crowd control and misdirection skills, and acting ability. Obviously, card manipulation for the purposes of producing magic is much more demanding. Flourishing simply doesn't compare magic because when you flourish you aren't trying to hide anything from the audience and don't need to be sneaky or use misdirection at all, whereas with card manipulation you are trying to hide certain things from the audience and often find yourself misdirecting with one hand to reach for something with the other. This is, of course reflected in your practice as well. A flourisher can sit on a chair and practice all day long while looking only at his hands. A card manipulator has to practice in front of large mirrors and prefferrably record himself from multiple angles so he can make sure he reaches for the loads just right, that his pivot is properly done, that he isn't flashing anything he shouldn't be flashing, that he is moving his body the right way to hide what he needs to hide, etc. Which one is more challenging is obvious when you consider everything that goes into a card manipulation performance.

About Jimbones post:
-Extreme is not only the amount of time practicing, but pushing your own limits.
-About McBride videos (manipulative magic and flourishes) and XCM (nothing to do with magic) you are not dancing with cards.
-You´re right XCM is not a new AREA in magic because XCM is not related to magic. I said that several times on previous post on this thread.
-De´vo WAS a magician but he is not anymore. But what I know is that a lot of magicians hate him and he has respect with those that has a deep understanding of what magic is. Again De´vo is not a magician, he is an extreme card manipulator.
-Xtreme Card Manipulators are people who take manipulation as an indepent art. So they dedicate their lives to what they do, but they are not guys with a lot of free time. Think about other sports/arts related to body skill.

About Bronin post:
-Knowing who is De´vo or his personal life is not gonna change anything.
Revealing his identity or his patents is not gonna hurt him and is not gonna broke him. I still agree with his products and his actitude like most Xtreme manipulators. The ones that care about the information you gave away are the haterz.
-I didn´t say "XCM is not marketing".......it could be...........but what I said was "I don´t care" or "we (XCM artist) don´t care"
-You cannot compare a magician skills (patter, misdirection, etc) with XCM. Because they have nothing to do. But I can say a lot of things about what you think and is not my intention to offend you or anybody here.

1)Flourishes and XCM are NOT the same thing. Flourishes are to enhance magic. XCM is another thing above flourishes and is greater. So a flourisher is not an XCM artist.

2) On XCM we do worry about body movement.

3) YOU ARE RIGHT on XCM we don´t have to worry about misdirection and those things. AND THIS IS BECAUSE XCM IS NOT MAGIC. So you cannot compare two different arts. Misdirection, patter, audience control does not make manipulative magic more difficult than XCM. Those magic skills can easily be incorporated with a few month or a few years. On the other hand several XCM moves requieres a whole lifetime to make them perfect. Think about the Trials, no one has ever completed them.

4) If you are about to perform a manipulative routine and someone sits on a bad angle, is your fault. You should take care about that kind of things because if you cannot meet the stage long before you begin, then you have to change to another trinks or another routine so you can be always sure.
Those advices are very well explained on "magic on stage vol1 by Jeff McBride" with his "commando act".
For example...are you gonna perform a dancing cane or some levitations ignoring the lighting? oh what will happen if someone turns on a reflector over me while I´m performing a levitation? lol .
Those things have to be measured DAYS before your actual performance take place.

5) Yes, a magician has to worry about a lot of things which are THEATRICAL SKILLS and that doesn´t make manipulative magic harder than XCM. But I explained about this on point 3).
Anyway I would like to see those theatrical skills taken to the extreme lol.
Xtreme misdirection, Xtreme audience control lol just kidding.

Come on

PD: be careful with the angles and misdirection because NO ONE can misdirect the most hatefull spectator watching your hands. And that´s an advantage on XCM. Anyway as I said before is not good to compare two DIFFERENT ARTS lol

Mefistofeles wrote:About Bronin post:
-Knowing who is De´vo or his personal life is not gonna change anything.
Revealing his identity or his patents is not gonna hurt him and is not gonna broke him. I still agree with his products and his actitude like most Xtreme manipulators. The ones that care about the information you gave away are the haterz.

If I thought that revealing that information was going to hurt him, I would not have posted it. Of course it won't hurt him. Im not interested in hurting his business. I have nothing against him or against XCM or anything else. The reason I posted it was to explain what the term XCM is.

The term XCM is a brand name for card flourishing. The person who owns the trademark is hoping that you will call all stand alone card flourishing XCM so he can capitalize on it. You see this in business all the time. What is the difference between Intel's "Core Duo" technology and AMD's "Dual Core" technology? There is no difference between the technologies; they are the same thing. The difference is that the name Dual Core can't be trademarked but Core Duo can. What's the difference between XCM and card flourishing? The difference is that the term XCM is trademarked, card flourishing is not.

Mefistofeles wrote:-You cannot compare a magician skills (patter, misdirection, etc) with XCM. Because they have nothing to do.

Sure you can. I can tell you without any doubt that a marathon is more challenging than a sprint and that a pentathlon is more challenging than a marathon, even though they are entirely different sports. You can't compare things when they cross over to other categories, for example I can't say that painting is more challenging than composing music. But I can compare things within the same category. Card manipulation and flourishing/XCM are both in the broad category of performance art and the more specific category of performance art involving the manipulation of playing cards. It is actually quite easy to compare the two.

Mefistofeles wrote:1)Flourishes and XCM are NOT the same thing. Flourishes are to enhance magic. XCM is another thing above flourishes and is greater. So a flourisher is not an XCM artist.

That is untrue. Flourishes can be used to enhance magic or they can be used by themselves. You can do a Cobra Cut as part of a XCM performance, or you can do it as part of your Ambitious Card. It doesn't become flourishing when you use it as part of a magic routine and XCM when you don't. It's still called flourishing either way.

The difference between flourishing and XCM is like the difference between Intel Core Duo and Athlon Dual Core, one is a trademarked name and the other isn't, but they both describe the same thing.

Mefistofeles wrote:2) On XCM we do worry about body movement.

But you don't worry about body movement in order to hide certain actions. If you mess up a body movement in XCM, it just won't look as good as it should've, but the vast majority of the people will not notice. If you mess up a body movement in card manipulation, large parts of your audience could see you reach for a load or worse and you could ruin the magic for them and ruin your whole performance as a result.

Mefistofeles wrote:3) YOU ARE RIGHT on XCM we don´t have to worry about misdirection and those things. AND THIS IS BECAUSE XCM IS NOT MAGIC. So you cannot compare two different arts. Misdirection, patter, audience control does not make manipulative magic more difficult than XCM. Those magic skills can easily be incorporated with a few month or a few years. On the other hand several XCM moves requieres a whole lifetime to make them perfect. Think about the Trials, no one has ever completed them.

Actually, audience control does take a lifetime to master. Even those considered the best at audience control (people like Gazzo and Cellini) admit that they are always learning and striving to improve.

On top of that, many moves in magic also require a lifetime to make them perfect. In fact, some moves are so difficult to get perfect that even some of the world's foremost magicians (Lewis Ganson for example) have promoted the complete elimination of that move. One such move is the Pivot. A pivot is a move that allows you to create the illusion that your hand is empty even though it's actually holding cards. It is a move so difficult to master that many of the top card manipulators feel that it is impossible to perform a pivot without flashing to some people, and they preffer not to bother trying it at all.

So, we see that both XCM and card manipulation have moves in their arsenal that are nearly impossible to master. Thus they cancel each other out when it comes to technical ability because both require extensive manual dexterity and practice.

Yet, to card manipulation are added the problems of misdirection, audience control, and acting; none of which flourishers need to worry about.

Mefistofeles wrote:4) If you are about to perform a manipulative routine and someone sits on a bad angle, is your fault. You should take care about that kind of things because if you cannot meet the stage long before you begin, then you have to change to another trinks or another routine so you can be always sure.
Those advices are very well explained on "magic on stage vol1 by Jeff McBride" with his "commando act".
For example...are you gonna perform a dancing cane or some levitations ignoring the lighting? oh what will happen if someone turns on a reflector over me while I´m performing a levitation? lol .
Those things have to be measured DAYS before your actual performance take place.

That's how things should be ideally. But unless you own your own theater and perform only there, there will always be things that are beyond your control. You try to minimize these things from happening, but you can never be 100% sure. When it comes to live performances, anything could happen, and you never know how well organized the people putting on the function are. Even if you told the people in charge of seating what you need, you can never be sure that they properly briefed all their people and that one of the ushers isnt going to say "hey, we need more chairs, lets make one more row" and ruin everything.

Unless you are a superstar, you aren't always performing as the star of the show. Sometimes you are the opening act of something bigger, or the lunchtime entertainment during a convention, or whatever the case may be. In those cases, you rarely have full control over the conditions. Sometimes they even change things on you at the last minute and there is nothing you can do about. Even if you have the right contacts, their answer might still be "sorry, we already seated the CEO there, we can't do that" and you then find yourself with no more than an hour to change your whole routine. Things happen.

Mefistofeles wrote:5) Yes, a magician has to worry about a lot of things which are THEATRICAL SKILLS and that doesn´t make manipulative magic harder than XCM.

If all else is the same and a magician has to worry about more, then yes it does make it more challenging.

Mefistofeles wrote:PD: be careful with the angles and misdirection because NO ONE can misdirect the most hatefull spectator watching your hands.

Whoever said that was full of c*** (not the best). A good performer can misdirect anyone.


PS. None of this means that card manipulation is better than XCM/flourishing. It just means that it is more challenging. Which one is better is a matter of opinion. Which one is more challenging is a matter of fact.

What will you do if a spectator WANT to figure out the magic you perform and decides this "I HAVE TO LOOK AT HIS HANDS" ?
You cannot misdirect that on an impromtu situation.

To combine the cobra cut with a ambitious card routine is ridiculous lol.
Please I don´t want to offend.

I don´t agree with most things I read but obviously we are not forced to think as the others lol. But I really don´t like that idea of eliminating a move because a foremost magician cannot do it well or its impractical for everyone. Ok the pivot is to show both sides of your hand but the problem is, I guess the pivots, interlocking moves, hand washing/transfer, aquitment, etc SHOULD NOT be used to show the hands empty.
Not because they are hard to do but because they do not look natural. I want to show my hands empty when they are really empty and I use transfers, pivots, aquitments, etc as utility moves to change from a palm position to another for a different production or for another body pose.
Anyway, the pivot (back and front palm) can easily be used while holding other objects such as silks in order to prevent from flashing.

Yeah you´re right an XCM artist doesn´t has to worry about audience control, misdirection, etc but I´m always trying to see how on earth can I come up with a new handling or new technique so my magic doesn´t need those things. That way I can perform those tricks on any situation without worrying if a spectator look at my hands constantly.
For example the setup for the linking rubber bands, on other thread some guys were discusing if you should do the move fast of slow or what misdirection to use, well I have that problem as well and I started to think a variation for the move so I can perform the setup without talking or misdirecting at all and without any suspicious or funny moves.
Yes, misdirection and control is challenging but unnecesarelly, because I want to concentrate on entertain and perform my stuff. So I guess XCM has that as an advantage because you´re concentrated on your things and entertain the people.

So I agree with eliminating something MISDIRECTION. Please don´t hate me for saying that. Think about another way to do a trick and you´ll be always happy and safe.
But I still wondering what do you think about the Ulmen Trials? lol
That is a challenge you cannot variate lol

I saw a magician on a theater and before the show began one assistant said to the people where they have to be sit lol. On that moment I had a heart attack lol. YOU CANNOT SAY THAT it´s SO obvious you are hiding something. Yes you cannot have always an absolute control so perform other tricks but DO NOT change your show on the last minute. I mean you have to carry non angle tricks/routines, that way you are always sure.
And perform a manipulative angly routine ONLY WHEN YOU ARE SURE the things are right and no one is gonna change the chairs lol

Peace and sorry my bad english

Mefistofeles wrote:What will you do if a spectator WANT to figure out the magic you perform and decides this "I HAVE TO LOOK AT HIS HANDS" ?

They have to choose a hand to look at. They can't look at both simultaneously at all times. A good performer will make them look at the hand they want them to look at.

Mefistofeles wrote:You cannot misdirect that on an impromtu situation.

Sure you can. I do it all the time, and I'm not even a full time professional.

Mefistofeles wrote:To combine the cobra cut with a ambitious card routine is ridiculous lol.
Please I don´t want to offend.

It all depends on your style. It would be ridiculous for me to do that because my style is a more relaxed sort of natural style. But there are magicians who have a flashier style. They use flashy moves like surfboard doubles, and card scaling. They do fancy cuts and flips and they shoot cards from one hand to the other. If a person with a flashy style like that does a cobra cut as part of their ACR, it does fit in very well.

Mefistofeles wrote:I don´t agree with most things I read but obviously we are not forced to think as the others lol. But I really don´t like that idea of eliminating a move because a foremost magician cannot do it well or its impractical for everyone.

Neither do I agree with that. There are many magicians who use those moves despite the difficulty involved. But I do see the wisdom behind not using it. Why should I practice for years to do a pivot properly and still risk flashing when I could simply wait until my hand really is empty (in between loads) before showing it empty.

Mefistofeles wrote:Yeah you´re right an XCM artist doesn´t has to worry about audience control, misdirection, etc but I´m always trying to see how on earth can I come up with a new handling or new technique so my magic doesn´t need those things. That way I can perform those tricks on any situation without worrying if a spectator look at my hands constantly.

Get better at it and you won't need to look for such things. Of course that's easier said than done. The best way to improve your misdirection is to perform a lot. So, go out and start performing. There are always people who burn your hands, but that's ok, just practice making them burn the wrong one.

Mefistofeles wrote:Yes, misdirection and control is challenging but unnecesarelly, because I want to concentrate on entertain and perform my stuff. So I guess XCM has that as an advantage because you´re concentrated on your things and entertain the people.

If you don't like misdirection and crowd control, then magic is probably not for you. Perhaps you should choose a different performance art that doesn't require those things. Juggling, ventriloquism, dancing, singing, playing in a band, acting, or something else.

Mefistofeles wrote:So I agree with eliminating something MISDIRECTION. Please don´t hate me for saying that. Think about another way to do a trick and you´ll be always happy and safe.

If you practice your misdirection, you will always be happy and safe no matter which method you use.

Mefistofeles wrote:But I still wondering what do you think about the Ulmen Trials? lol
That is a challenge you cannot variate lol

I don't really understand the appeal of the Ulmen trials and I really dislike the D&D-like garnish they've put on it. I could care less how many levels of the Ulmen trials you pass. Flourishing is a performance art, not a sport. I'd be more interested in knowing how entertaining you are than how many underwater packet cuts you can do. I could care less if you are an Ulmen grand master. Now, if you performed a flourishing routine during the halftime show of a big game and recieved a standing ovation, or if you opened for another performer with your flourishing routine and were well recieved, Id give you a lot of props for that. But I could really care less how many decks you've shuffled with your feet.

This, of course, assumes that flourishing is a performance art. Maybe it isn't? Maybe it really is a sport, and that's why I don't get it? I suppose if it were a sport, it would make a lot more sense. The only time I try things out despite not having an interest in it, is when a friend insists. But if I have no interest in it why would I go out of my way to try it?

Did De´vo ban you from his forum or something similar?
I don´t want to offend but I guess you have a very "closed" way of thinking. I admit I have mistakes like every human being but I try to experiment different things such as to modify techniques so I can use my own methods with my own style.
I really don´t understand a few things you say, for example I can perform the linking rubber bands setup in front of the people eyes because I use a variation I made and I´m trying to modify everything so no one is gonna catch me doing anything and you say you prefer to use the standar method with misdirection. So do you think I´m not good enought because I want to improve the techniques without misdirection?
Continuing with this example, how are you gonna misdirect with one hand on this trick? I guess no one can because both hands are together.
You have to talk and ask questions. I guess all of us want something cleaner and that´s why another member post a question about this on other thread. Well I just like "clean" tricks and instead of talking a lot I sit down at home, I grab two rubberbands and I start to experiment how can I come up with something cleaner.
This is just an example because I do this with all the tricks I know.
I want to improve myself experimenting not just performing and thinking about patters and presentation. I guess there is nothing wrong with what I do.
But I don´t understand why this is not accepted

I´m not gonna say anything else about XCM and those thing because it is only bringing problems because no one want to experiment different stuff. The answers I have are kind of "is that magical?.... no? then I´m not interested"
And I simply don´t get it.

Peace

Mefistofeles wrote:Did De´vo ban you from his forum or something similar?

I've never been on his forums. I've only looked through the websites and watched some of the videos there.

Mefistofeles wrote:I really don´t understand a few things you say, for example I can perform the linking rubber bands setup in front of the people eyes because I use a variation I made and I´m trying to modify everything so no one is gonna catch me doing anything and you say you prefer to use the standar method with misdirection. So do you think I´m not good enought because I want to improve the techniques without misdirection?

I do think you are not good enough at misdirection. But it's not because you want to improve techniques to eliminate the misdirection. The reason I think you aren't good enough at it is because you've demonstrated over and over that you are very concerned with the possibility that someone might burn your hands and not be misdirected. If you were good enough, that would not be a concern. There is, of course, nothing wrong with coming up with new techniques.

Mefistofeles wrote:Continuing with this example, how are you gonna misdirect with one hand on this trick? I guess no one can because both hands are together.

I don't know which linking rubberbands you are talking about. The linking rubberbands that I know is not an impromptu trick, it is a trick that requires some setup. So, it's kind of difficult for me to comment on the trick since Im not sure which method you are using.

If you are talking about the same method I know, and there are people who are trying to do it impromptu, then the problem isn't with the trick, it's with the people. They should be choosing impromptu tricks for impromptu situations, not tricks that require setup. If they wanna do it that badly, they can excuse themselves to use the restroom and set up there, or set up under the table while chatting about other things, before ever mentioning anything about magic or something like that.

Mefistofeles wrote:You have to talk and ask questions. I guess all of us want something cleaner and that´s why another member post a question about this on other thread. Well I just like "clean" tricks and instead of talking a lot I sit down at home, I grab two rubberbands and I start to experiment how can I come up with something cleaner.

That's cool. There's nothing wrong with that.

Mefistofeles wrote:This is just an example because I do this with all the tricks I know.
I want to improve myself experimenting not just performing and thinking about patters and presentation. I guess there is nothing wrong with what I do.
But I don´t understand why this is not accepted

I never said it isn't accepted. I encourage you to keep improving your tricks. Just don't neglect your performance while you work on new mechanics.

Mefistofeles wrote:I´m not gonna say anything else about XCM and those thing because it is only bringing problems because no one want to experiment different stuff. The answers I have are kind of "is that magical?.... no? then I´m not interested"
And I simply don´t get it.

It's pretty simple to get. Some people just have no interest in it. If you have no interest in it, why would you try it out?

The linking rubber band trick I´m talking is the one where you place a band between both indexes and another band between both pinkies.
I saw this trick for the first time on Dan Harlan´s Bandshark and is done with regular bands.
The tricky part is the setup, he places both bands between the fingers and then comes the dirty move and everything is perform while the people is "watching" lol. I mean, a good misdirection is necesary for that dirty move and if I´m not wrong, other members were talking about the speed of it (kind of, "should I do it fast or slow?"). I guess they were talking about the same trick, but now I´m not sure and I guess the trick is called "linking rubberband".
The small idea I came up with is to change that dirty move for a cleaner one......that´s all. And I use misdirection for other tricks when I cannot change the method but I´m always trying to change it lol.

My way of thinking is, I would like to perform something 100% sure fire.
I mean no angly, no gimmicks so the people can examinate the props and no justification is necesary so when someone says "hey, let me see that prop" I say "sure why not".
And if the tricks doesn´t need misdirection then the tricks could/might be repeated (I never do the same trick twice). But if someone is filming me and watches the video over and over then misdirection doesn´t work anymore. So no misdirection tricks are the solution for this problem.
This is kind of a theory I came up with lol.

Now we are talknig about other things not related to manipulation so I guess this is not the apropiate thread.......but what the hell lol

Peace

Can't we all just get along ?


Seriousl though, can we please get on subject and end this flame war, yes you are having a conversation, but it is starting to get heated and it will be better for everyone if it ends here and now. However, if it must continue, may it please continue in private messages as to not get this topic locked?

~David

Bronin wrote:I don't really understand the appeal of the Ulmen trials and I really dislike the D&D-like garnish they've put on it. I could care less how many levels of the Ulmen trials you pass. Flourishing is a performance art, not a sport. I'd be more interested in knowing how entertaining you are than how many underwater packet cuts you can do. I could care less if you are an Ulmen grand master. Now, if you performed a flourishing routine during the halftime show of a big game and recieved a standing ovation, or if you opened for another performer with your flourishing routine and were well recieved, Id give you a lot of props for that. But I could really care less how many decks you've shuffled with your feet.

Let me start off by stating that I have nothing against XCM. I think it is clever marketing. I also do not like the gothic overtones of the Ulmen trials. I also think that it is odd that (at least to me) it seems that De'vo created the Ulmen trials and yet there are "Ulmen grand masters". Who are they? Why have we never heard of them? What are the remaining trials? I also think that cutting/shuffling cards underwater or with your feet is pointless and contrived.

Now, if the XCM supporters have read this far let me say that I have both eXtreme Beginnerz and Cradle to Grave. I am working through them and do very much enjoy XCM, but I do believe it is very different from sleight of hand. It is an art, and like all art forms, it will appeal to some people and not to others, and just because someone either likes or dislikes it they should not be judged harshly or harassed for that. Also, just because someone does not like a particular branch of a particular art does not necessarily mean that they dislike the main personalities of that art (or visa-versa), for example I like street magic but dislike the stage personalities of both Criss Angel and Bavid Blaine.

David R. is correct, let everyone just agree to disagree. It is clear that no one's opinion is going to be changed.

Sometimes I wonder what it is people are reading. It couldn't have been this thread since there hasn't been a flame war on this thread, nor has anyone spoken against XCM.

Ulmen Trials rules and history can be found here:

http://www.superhandz.com/about.html

On that link is everything explained about why some challenges are kept under secret and why everything is kept underground.

I hope that helps with the question : )

No disrespect intended but the website certainly does not prove that he did not make the whole thing up. It only proves that he posted a back story, not if that story is true.

You just have to make sure to decide in advance, whether to do a XCM or magic routine. They are both good, but when mixed they damage each others effect.
XCM is marketing, but so is everything in a magic shop really.

Bronin wrote: What is the difference between Intel's "Core Duo" technology and AMD's "Dual Core" technology? There is no difference between the technologies; they are the same thing. The difference is that the name Dual Core can't be trademarked but Core Duo can.

Bronin wrote: difference between Intel Core Duo and Athlon Dual Core, one is a trademarked name and the other isn't, but they both describe the same thing.

There's HUGE differences between Core 2 Duo and Athlon Dual Core technology. Also, your other point is invalid on AMD dual cores not having brand names - AMD do have a brand name for their dual cores, it's called X2. Granted, they do both have 2 cores, but they are definitely not the same technologies.

Bronin wrote: There is no difference between the technologies; they are the same thing.

lol lol rofl.

Anyway, sorry its off topic, but I had to correct you, let us just try to keep tech statements to tech forums from now on. No disrespect intended.

Let people practice XCM if they want. I'm currently learning XB, but my damn thumbs are too short for some of the moves.