talkmagic.co.uk

I also attended the event last night. Brilliant.

As Bananafish says its not what he does its the way that he does it.

Still, the one thing that leaves me stunned more than anything is the audience. As soon as the house lights go down the audience is hooked. He's like a rock god. I lost count the number of times the audience took a sharp intake of breath in astonishment. Basically they were in awe for the full 2 1/2 hours.

I was there when Bananafish spoke to Mr. Brown. I couldn't hear what he had to say as the traffic noise was too loud, sorry.

Would £50 remind you?

JackWright wrote:Would £50 remind you?

I have my honour! (and my price as it happens, but £50 isn't it)

i've just seen the show (loved most of it, although the whole 'spiritual thing' i found sadly lacking, especially since he'd said what a load of c*** (not the best) it is in his book), and i've been lurking on the forums for a while... forgot my old username though

for us lay people who know it's magic, know it's not really as spectacular as it seems, and know a few techniques from reading his book and other sites, is there some resource where we can find out how these tricks, or similar renditions of them, are done?

I saw it the other night. Haven't really seen much Derren Brown stuff and I thought it was great. The best thing I've seen in ages! The oracle thing was really impressive.

I also like the table tipping as about september last year I went to this Johnathon Cainer psychic museum in York (as a skeptic) with my mum (who's quite in to the paranormal stuff - she also went to the show with me) and the medium did table tipping there. I think it showed her not to take it all at face value. Although she did wonder if Derren was psychic and just didn't realize it .

As they say, you learn something new every day - I never knew there was a psychic museum in York. ...and it's where I'm from!

neilcuk wrote:is there some resource where we can find out how these tricks, or similar renditions of them, are done?

You wouldn't want to, trust me on this one. You'd be paying A LOT of money to learn something it would be hard to understand without previous experience in and a good understanding of this field.

My advice: enjoy the show for what it is.

what cardza said...

but also, come on now, why do you want to just perform someone else's stuff? dont you want to be "you"?

just cos you might do the stuff doesnt mean you'll be seen the same...im not having a go, just being honest...please dont take it as me having a pop at anyone!

abraxus wrote:what cardza said...

but also, come on now, why do you want to just perform someone else's stuff? dont you want to be "you"?

just cos you might do the stuff doesnt mean you'll be seen the same...im not having a go, just being honest...please dont take it as me having a pop at anyone!

oh I'm not interested in performing it. i just want to know how it's done

the table floating thing for example. personally, i think that kind of thing is ridiculous. everyone knows there will be some kind of gimick behind it, and i don't really see that as being something impressive - just quite cheap

the oracle thing too... apparently the card has names, dates of birth. i didn't know this, so now i realise how he was pulling out star-signs and the day upon which people were born. the cards are either see-through in some way, or that information is accessible to him

basically, I'm fully aware that there's nothing 'special' about derren with regards to mind-reading. so I'm just interested in the method

i appreciate his showmanship and finesse a lot more than the actual tricks themselves. he does a great job of surrounding each trick with a lot of mambo-jambo and that's what i enjoy seeing

neilcuk wrote:oh I'm not interested in performing it. i just want to know how it's done

First of all understand that people who use this kind of material to make their living aren't going to be happy to just tell you where you can find it.

Secondly, you would be way out of your depth.

Thirdly it would be a complete waste of money. If you knew how much some of the stuff in his act costs to learn... we're not talking a tenner here, closer to a hundred times that. It's NOT "just quite cheap".

Finally - enjoy it for what it is. Savour that feeling because you will be disappointed otherwise.

yeah, even if we knew, we wouldnt spill the beans, old bean...

just enjoy it, watch his dvds, and leave it at that...

Neil - As others have said the road to learning this particular area of magic is a long, slow and often expensive one; especially if you want to do it well. It may not be what you or anyone intrigued or frustrated about the effects wants to hear but if it's just for sheer curiosity you and they would be far better off simply sitting back, enjoying the experience and the wonderment of being totally baffled (or as with so many, enjoying pontificating as to how it may have been done). If you want to start spending money, endless nights reading and practicing (with no guarantee that others in this line will let you in on their refinements etc) then you will already know where to start. I have a general interest in all things magic but decided some time ago that I wanted to specialise in this field and although really only relatively recently starting with it seriously information and help is available but it's up to the individual to work out where from. In a way, if you can't overcome that first hurdle mentalism probably isn't going to be your thing as it is quite different to most other forms of magic. In fact anyone looking to go into performing mentalism other than just perhaps one or two card predictions probably will end up having to decide whether to take the general magic OR mentalism route as they really don't work alongside one another that well. No doubt others more experienced than me will be along to say otherwise but I recommend simply watching and enjoying Derren at work.

As for table tipping and turning; not everyone believes in spirit possessions but many who take part in such effects are left totally bemused. No cheap gimmick or props on Derrens stage other than the bananas and some playing cards.

i don't mean to offend anyone here... i get the feeling some replies are quite defensive. this isn't the plan, I'm just interested in some of the ideas behind it...

i appreciate your comments, and respect the fact that:

a) the 'magic circle' is considerably guarded about its secrets, and of course if it wasn't, there wouldn't be magic at all

b) people put a lot of time and money into learning and developing skills and ideas

I'm not after stealing, or knowing exactly how things are done, but simply interested in the methodology

for instance - you mention no cheap gimmicks or props were used. i was probably not careful enough in the selection of my words initially. however, I'm sure you can appreciate that in order to get a table to "float", there *is* going to be something that generates that effect

whether it's through magnetism, radio control, wires, whatever - there will be some kind of technology and illusion being used. tables don't float, and I'm just curious to know what's being used. i don't really want to know exactly how it's done, but if someone just said "it's based on <insert technology / illusion>", that's good enough for me

I'm not after spending money to learn such things. I'm quite intrigued as to whether there are sites on the internet where people basically 'expose' these things for free.... only because if there are not, it's testimony to those that are in the 'magic circle' (i apologise if this phrase is in anyway taken to be patronising - it really isn't, i just can't think of any other way to describe those that practice magic and the way they keep their secrets protected)

the internet has all but taken the mystery out of everything else, so if it's not yet 'broken' magic, it's very commendable to those that do know the secrets

one final point - to the fine man who was perhaps a little elitist in his comment of magic being beyond me and i'd be out of my depth...

if you take that attitude, with anything in life, people will not respect you. you may know things others do not, but i very much doubt it is beyond the average individual to learn, practice, and invest in magic. i do not claim to be able to read an advanced magic technique and be able to understand it straight off, but very few things are out of the depth of an average individual.

one of derren's major strengths is his level-headedness and down-to-earth approach, which makes him far more accessible than the likes of uri geller and other such "magicians", who seem to be very far stuck up their own backside.

to expand on the understanding side of things, i've seen derren's card trick video and essentially unless you learn the "lingo" from scratch and practise all the movements and so on, i appreciate you will struggle to get any benefit from more advanced techniques, but i was more than able to see how the effects are created. more often than not it's simply "being good" with a deck of cards. knowing where to cut, being able to move cards in your hands autonomously, and so on

so that's all i was really after. i know the 20Q routine would be a mixture of memory, cold reading, suggestion of the items before they've even written them down and so on. i don't know exactly how he does it, but I'm aware of what's going on.

knowing that doesn't detract from the fact he is brilliant at what he does, but it does satisfy my curiosity

if nobody wants to say how the routines are created, i have no issue with that at all. however i do enjoy reading various things in the forum and just wondered if a few people wanted to share a couple of insights

thanks for the comments

by the way, for his next tour, I'm definitely going to book up more than one show... i feel a bit gutted i've only seen it once!

uri gellars a magician?

you said yourself "the internet has all but taken the mystery out of everything else" - so why use it to take the mystery out of this?

seems at odds to everything else you said...

i'll reveal all to you right now, and please, think on this and all shall be revealed...

A MAGICIAN GUARDS AN EMPTY BOX...

there you go...thats your answer!

neilcuk wrote:one final point - to the fine man who was perhaps a little elitist in his comment of magic being beyond me and i'd be out of my depth...

if you take that attitude, with anything in life, people will not respect you. you may know things others do not, but i very much doubt it is beyond the average individual to learn, practice, and invest in magic. i do not claim to be able to read an advanced magic technique and be able to understand it straight off, but very few things are out of the depth of an average individual.

Ah, good chap, elitism has nothing to do with it.

If you were interested in psychology and (assuming you knew nothing about it) wanted to dive right in to advanced books on neuroscience would you call the psychologist advising you not to an elitist? Nope. You have to start with the basics and work your way up.

I merely speak from experience having heard of many performers looking into more advanced material and just not getting it - they just didn't understand it until they had gained more experience.

There are other reasons too, and they have nothing to do with elitism either.

If you wish to continue calling me an elitist then please bear in mind you are making assumptions about something you know little about...