talkmagic.co.uk

Charles Calthrop wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:No... I'm not officially "leaving" the Bunny again... just not wasting my time with it.

(Emph. by me)

If 'officially' leaving means you come back again in a couple of months, does 'unofficially' leaving mean that you won't?

Speaking of smug and arrogant

Charles I don't know what your problem is with me, but let's not start down that path here.

Sam brings up how this has turned into an "argument" which it was not originally, nor was there any intention on my part for it to turn into a soap box for Mike to stand upon and turn it into such. My original post simply asked for people's honest perspective of me, that's all. I admitted that I was having a problem at another forum and I wanted to see if or not I was as bad about something as some were saying.

What I have discovered from teh three forums where I asked this question (never once pionting a finger at the Bunny or Mike or anyone) is that yes, I have an opnion that I'm not afraid to express and yes, most see me as someone with knowledge and yes, as I've already known and admitted, I'm about as unobvious with things as an 800 lb Gorillas standing in your door. But, most people do not see me as a bully, as being an elitist, or as being wrongly derrogatory in how I express myself.

I have likewise noticed that many people understand why I "snear" when I use the word "Magician" and they sustain the fact that my observations are correct; mot magicians live out the negative stereotype of the word vs. aspiring to live up to what that title used to represent.

Long story short, I've seen far more support of me and encouragement to "not change a thing" than I've seen those that moan and groan. I've also noticed that many observers that have voiced their support of me have pointed out something I already knew... the fact that those moaning & groaning frequently do so because they hate hearing the truth and dealing with their own guilt for doing certain things and thinking in certain ways. In other words, they lash out at me because of their own guilt and anger at themselves... Psychological Observational Skills 101.

I am far from a saint and though I know full well that I'm exceptionally educated and experienced in this stuff, I am very far from being what I'd consider to be an "expert". I've NEVER claimed to be the final word on the things I might argue over and most of the time I will post reference as to who said or says what so people know it's not just my opinion.

In a PM from one individual who shall remain nameless, it was observed that many of the people that tend to loathe me and seem willing to stir up problems, are all involved with the JREF and similar skeptical groups and it is quite possible that their agression towards me stems from the fact that 1.) I slap them down with great frequency for being bullies and irresponsible in how they do what they do; and 2.) I defend the right and role of the Reader in that it is a prime part of Mentalism e.g. I defend the older traditions and skills of my craft. Finally, there is the fact that I also believe in standing up for people of faith though I may not agree with such things. I am ardently opposed to this new idea of "If you're a magician you must be an atheist." In that such things create anamosity and loss within our world and it is a falsehood -- a corruption of truth as well as genuine human dignity in my book.

I know I have enemies... I deliberately created them by going against the opinions of the Status Quo on certain key issues. But in this instance I have no doubts that I am the one that is on the moral side of righteousness and ethics, which for me is far more important than playing dumb and supporting a questionable agenda being stimulated by a very questionable "leader"... but that's a different issue altogether.

The issues over at the Bunny belong to them and their members. I have been shown that I am not wanted there and that's fine, let them do as they will. I'll snoop and browse aruond here and there, but I'll let the experts do as they will...

I know the truth and I know I've done no wrong. I also know that the majority of folks see things in a similar light, just as they see it quite low and shameful that Michael would do as he's done... a move that pains me greatly, which has shattered any trust or confidence I ever had in him.

Craig Browning wrote:Speaking of smug and arrogant

I think I see part of the problem; we're working from different defintions.

Charles I don't know what your problem is with me
....
I have likewise noticed that many people understand why I "snear" when I use the word "Magician"

Another part of the problem is that I do understand why you 'sneer' when you use the word 'magician' and it's because you're pompous, smug and very attached to the notion of your own superiority.

Long story short...

Oops, too late...

I've seen far more support of me and encouragement to "not change a thing" than I've seen those that moan and groan. I've also noticed that many observers that have voiced their support of me have pointed out something I already knew...

Funny how that happens, isn't it?
Did you start this thread intending to bask in the glow of the replies you liked and 'sneer' at the rest? It sounds like you did. In which case, fair enough - it's not like I'm expecting you're going to change anything anyway, but since you extended the invitation I fancy having my say. And in my last post I pointed out that you have a record for flouncing away from forums because you got tired of the criticism you received and then coming back again and moaning about the criticism you received. I'm asking you seriously; why do you do that? I know why I think you do.

... those moaning & groaning frequently do so because they hate hearing the truth and dealing with their own guilt for doing certain things and thinking in certain ways. In other words, they lash out at me because of their own guilt and anger at themselves... Psychological Observational Skills 101.

That's one possible reason, but if that's a reading I'm going to have to call it a miss.

it was observed that many of the people that tend to loathe me and seem willing to stir up problems, are all involved with the JREF

Which people? I'm interested.

Finally, there is the fact that I also believe in standing up for people of faith though I may not agree with such things. I am ardently opposed to this new idea of "If you're a magician you must be an atheist."

That's a very new idea. So new, I think, that you just made it up.

Hello Craig,

I know that I am very late in responding but I was away. I read (quickly) the first three pages of resonses and then decided to respond myself, so if I repeat too much of what other's have said, my apologies.

In one of your posts in this thread you mentioned people having a problem with you mentioning past experience. We are all just the sum of our experiences. Combine that with the fact that magic is growing art and you not only can defend your recalling your experience, but conclude that it is required. For an art to continue to exist, it must grow. And for an art to grow, current practitioners must learn from those in the past and those in the present who are more experienced, otherwise, we all start from nothing and the little to no progress is made. Also, even if we do not specifically tell of a past experience, we are all still drawing on them when stating our opinions. When someone says that they don't like something, there is usually a past experience that resulted in that opinion, wether or not the past experience is fully detailed in the answer, it was drawn upon when making the statement.

As for coming off as a "Know it all", that could be the perception by some when you have answers to a large number of questions, though I do not recall you ever claiming to know everything about mentalism or any branch of magic, you just have a lot of experience and have gone through a lot of what many others are experiencing for the first time. Even though they may resent or misinterpert your responses as arrogant, by recalling your experiences you are helping them, saving them time, and allowing them to grow more quickly in the art of magic.

So, after yet another long, rambling post of mine, I will echo what seems to be the general concensis: You are ok, don't change a thing, and we appriciate your advice and assistance

Regards,

Kolisar

It should be taken into consideration, that rallying to one's support in this case, is far easier than not. Therefore any evaluation that compares the number of people who say "dont change a thing" to the people who say something different ONLY evaluates the portion of people who have posted. What do the people who have said "nothing" think?

Some people may choose not to become involved in this discussion because they are intimidated, others may see the "direction" the thread started heading after the Magic Bunny guy's post and felt best not to get involved.

Whatever the case, we do not have a sufficient "sample" of the Talk Magic community to say with conviction one way or another what the overall feeling is.

Craig, most of us dont know you very well, definately dont know you personally. We only know your "posts". Therefore, I would be interested in your opinion, and also the opinion of anyone here who actually knows you personally... if they read the vast majority of your posts, would that say "yep... that's Craig?" then, if they read the 10% or 20% or whatever the percentage is that are somewhat "arguementative" would they say "yep that's Craig?" or would they find those posts out of character and surprising?

I am curious to know if the Craig that reviews a new product, helps a member find a source for a "close up mat" or answers a question about Billets, is closer or further away to the "real" Craig Browning that exists outside this forum than the "other" Craig... The Craig Browning that has facilitated (both directly and indirectly) this thread.

I hate to say it this way, but when it comes to "me" you get what you see (well, read at least).

My life is a book that is 100% opened for all to read, I have nothing to hide. I talk and act as frankly in person as I do in these forums though, as most of us know, a face to face conversation allows us to use certain body language and influxes to help convey actual meaning, implication ,etc. For me most of what I say in a conversation is relatively light hearted... laughter is one of the things I'm known for and I tend to laugh about just about everything these days.

Those that visit MySpace will learn more about me from the non-magic side of the bush but it's not like I conceal that side of who I am in these forums either.

Mandrake said it for me....don't change a thing....

I look forward to the day when you, Mark, and I are in the same room and I can hug you both, just like the somewhat puffed-up teddy bears that you are...haha....

We have been telling each other, off and on, for a long time what should be done....I only have one real thing to tell YOU:
Don't ask people what they think of you.....If they like you, you really should be able to sense it, and if they don't like you, you don't want to hear it....Chances are, those who don't like you would not like you for any reason....

Happy Holidays, Sport......Keep kicking!!!!

opie

Hey old timer!

When I saw your name with a post I cringed, not knowing for certain what to expect... even dear Saint Lewis (pun intended) hasn't inserted his two cents as of yet but then I think I'm pretty much on the mark (no pun intended) as to where I stand with him...

It's not so much as asking folks if they "like me" or not, it's just trying to see if I have or do get too braisen... I'm glad to see that the majority appreciates my brashness and seems to understand it. As to those that don't... well, for reasons explained by those that voted to the contrary, I'd have to say that their view has been made rather clear when it comes to perspective.

Thanks much and happy Yule to you as well old chum... You and everyone here!

from my point of view...

well, firstly i value everyone's time on here...i see this place as an area for discussions and to try and help each other, a brotherhood if you will, a family of kinds...

and like all families, we'll fuss and fight over our different definitions...

i often wonder why craig comes on here, what he gets out of it all; i still dont quite know...the majority of the time, you seem to just bawl people out for no good reason just cos they dare disagree or have have different opinions and beliefs than yours...

and when anyone goes against your quite rigid definitions, all hell breaks loose...which i think is dangerous, what if you turn someone off completely from magic? what if you snuff out the creativity from someone purely cos you dont agree or they dont do things "your" way?

i find that a juxtoposition (spelling) to what you otherwise proclaim...

thats not to say i dont value your opinions and views, just that, well...maybe you're not the be all and end all in mentalism and other arts that you sometimes suggest you are...

maybe there are other ways than your own...with your tone in posts, thats just you i feel, a prowling wolf of mentalism...

i get annoyed with you sometimes, i imagine you drinking a slug of whiskey, and grabbing some poor kid in a headlock shouting at them "NO! YOU DON'T USE CARDS IN MENTALISM YOU CRETIN" - then go off and do a show AND use cards in your act; but with the caveat "well, i use them within a believable structure"...

sometimes a two sentence answer will impart more wisdom than a whole page-worth...(and i should take my own advice)...

i value your input here, but i dont always value the way you talk to people here...i find it odd that you always mention "hippity hop bunnies" in the same breath as "magician" snear or no snear...thats quite a carachiture (spelling again) of a magician...it's like me saying all mentalists wear turbans, polo necks and have a crystal ball to read their billets from...

i think you shouldnt change as a person (especially as none of us here actually know the full you) - but maybe not be so overtly grizzly when people ask a simple question or express an idea...

i doubt if you remember a posting of mine (there's a lot of rubbish to sift through), but it was a sticky of yours "im special" where i said about how inspiring that a top pro would take time out, be pleasant and encouraging to me in some e-mails? if you're interested, i'll pm you the guy's name and maybe that'll explain things better than i probably did...

stay Craig, be you, just dont be so hard on us that want to express whatever creativity we may have...it's very rare that i see you give encouragement plainly...and then only when it fits within you're own structure of things...

EDIT: you're the sargeant major of mentalism! Ahhhhten-shun!

Damn... the person you just described sounds more like Vernon than me

I'm really not kidding... I've watched Vernon and Larry Jennings get into horrible fights and at the same time, I've watch Dai loose his cool more than a few times with young magicians that wanted to do things "their way" vs. learning the "right way".

I'm well aware that I'm not subtle a good chunk of the time, sadly it's just how I'm drawn... those that know me away from these boards, one a more one on one level, even if it's just speaking on the phone of some kind of net phone system, they know I'm not the big mean pit bull so many seem to envision.

Bitter?

Most certainly! Like so many I've invested my life and health into this world and ended up with little more than memories and the desire to share it. Yet, I keep forgetting that swine can be carnavores and they really don't appreciate you casting perils at their feet, when it's not something they find applicable to their mind set on things. So, like a fool I have given and given and endured a great deal of humiliation and boycott from those that would rather I dool things out a teaspoon at a time on a DVD or Book and charge them an arm and a leg for it vs. getting it for free... and I've been told by several that this is the attitude to have in that few appreciate anything you simply give to them.

This experience has taken a very hard toll on me; one of my lattest thoughts "revenge wise" was to put down all of my knowledge in book form and give it away to every high school across the nation for their theater department, not lifting a single finger to market it to the magic community itself...

Fortunately for most, I love this stuff too much to do that. But given the elementary school playground games certain members of the bunny have been playing, I thought it an appropriate childish idea to offer in response... along side slashing my wrists of course (that would really give them long lasting guilt and make them think twice the next time... maybe?) and then of course there has been a small ton of personal articles I've been writing out, just to help me let go of the hurt and feeling of total betrayal I have felt over this horse pucky, especially from MichaelJay. But then there are members of the bunny now cutting and pasting my statements from other forums onto the bunny now... they simply don't understand boundaries at all, let alone dicorum or respect on any level.

No... I'm not doing a thing but moving on with my life...

To show you how aware certain folks are on that forum, one of their members suggested I step away from the computer for a week or two and get a life... something I'd love to do, but as most of you are aware, it's not exactly something exactly viable for me... maybe this is a newbie that don't know better, I don't know, but it was one of the sharper cuts from that group that hurts a bit more than the others.

I've ranted long enough... I once again want to thank you guys for your candor and support.

Just to confirm, the post where 'get a life' was included was deleted because it was discourteous and downright rude. If we can't discuss matters without becoming offensive then expect posts to be removed without explanation. If posts are relevant and pertinent and the content worthy of being included then please keep them on a polite level - like the majority of TM posts usually are.

what happens if you type ass

Edit: Nothing happens! When you type c*** (not the best) you get the explanation in brackets. You should get a** (something you s*** out of) when you type ass.

By the way I've forgotten more about spelling that most of you will ever know and snear is spelt S-N-E-E-R!

Craig....you big poot.....

I find no pleasure in knocking a guy for asking my opinion about something......

Keep on put putting away, old pal.....opie

Craig Browning wrote:
No... I'm not doing a thing but moving on with my life...

To show you how aware certain folks are on that forum, one of their members suggested I step away from the computer for a week or two and get a life... something I'd love to do, but as most of you are aware, it's not exactly something exactly viable for me... maybe this is a newbie that don't know better, I don't know, but it was one of the sharper cuts from that group that hurts a bit more than the others.

I've ranted long enough... I once again want to thank you guys for your candor and support.

I believe it was me who told you on this thread to have a break from the computer for a couple of weeks, I didn't however tell you get a life... I told you go live some.. as in away from the keyboard, I have read and enjoyed enough of you to know you are suffering with MS and realise Its tough to have physical disabiltys.. but I was more worried for your mental health.... I've seen people get themselves in such a state over what gets said over forums and can see the warning signs in your posts. I could elaborate but I'm sure there is no need.
If it was someone else on the bunny you are refering too then I'm sorry to butt in, but my post on this thread was aimed at your well being as at the end of the day I'm sure you mean well even if you can't get it across sometimes (I know the feeling )

Anyway a Merry Christmas to you and yours and take care

Edit: It seems my original post I was refering too has been deleted, maybe someone should have read it a bit more carefully?

Wukfit

Thanks for the clarification and yes, I agree with you and as best I can I do try to get out and about the village for an hour or two each day. Sadly, we are heading into a belated winter season... though I jokingly refer to my wheelchair as my mini-SUV it does not have a heater, which certainly makes any time out in a New England winter a bit less than a fun thing. The damndable part of it is, heat triggers MS exacerbations so I'm pretty well screwed during the summer months as well... leaves me about six weeks in the spring and about the same in the fall to actually enjoy life

Though it may seem otherwise, I'm really not on the Computer 24/7

I went through a New England winter once. they're utterly brutal and I'm not just saying that to seem nice.