talkmagic.co.uk

I agree abraxus and find it frustrating when people are told they are wrong for having that opinion. Hence, I asked the question to greater understand peoples' views.

DrTodd wrote:IS and for some, OUGHT to be

Now I'm confused again

If someone IS a mentalist then does that imply that they use mentalism exclusively in all of their effects and does that also mean that they do no effects which do not involve mentalism?

If that is the case, then Derren Brown, for instance, is not a mentalist since he performs tricks which have no mentalism angles.

Marvell...

Derren Brown has never CLAIMED to be a 'mentalist'. In fact, in his own words (near as I can remember) he claims that there isn't a label for what he does, although it may have the traits of certain aspects of mentalism.

I think people are pigeonholing far too tightly on this at the minute!

Derren is first and foremost a magician, which anyone who's seen the DPB will know.

Marvell, mate, the definition of a mentalist has as many interpretations as there are people to define it. Don't sweat it, it doesn't really matter; just entertain people. If that includes reading minds, fine. How you achieve the effect of reading minds or knowing the un-knowable doesn't really matter as long as your act entertains.

In fact, I'm sure I've said before that it seems best to go without a label and let your audience decide based on what they feel.

Indeed seige. In fact, all of the Trick of the Mind episodes begin with the same quote assuring us that all of his effects are created using "magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship". He specifically says that he does not have any supernatural gifts and presents his effects with a psychological angle.

However, it would appear that many in the magic community feel that he is a mentalist and categorise him as such. This, I assume, is becuase of their definition of mentalism and how that applies to his work.

Interestinly, with my little experience of what the magic community and the public define as "mentalism", I avoid the term to describe aspects of my own work and like Derren Brown, define it in terms of psychology and specifically move away from the paranormal.

If Derren Brown were to answer my question, I'm sure he would restrict its definition to effects attributed to supernatural ability.

I think I'm going to file this in the same box as "to gaff or not to gaff", since it has the same conclusion

I really don't understand why there should be such a line drawn between magic and mentalism. That other thread has gone right over my head now, I don't know why it's got to be so complicated.

I'm just a wannabe magician who goes round the pubs with decks of cards in her pockets. It's not my main job, I do it because I enjoy doing it.

I really enjoy performing my mental routine and people who see it really enjoy it too. That's the main thing as far as I care is that we all have fun with what I'm doing. I'm not trying to come across as some mental goddess, I just want to entertain people and have fun doing it. If using the odd mental routine helps fulfil that goal then I'm going to use it.

Why shouldn't I?

Lady of Mystery wrote:Why shouldn't I?

Because I doubt at your age you have the skills or credentials to perform 'real' mentalism. Read Craig's post on How to Become a Mentalist.

seige wrote:

Lady of Mystery wrote:Why shouldn't I?

Because I doubt at your age you have the skills or credentials to perform 'real' mentalism. Read Craig's post on How to Become a Mentalist.

I hope there was an implied smiley there.

Sarcasm! My middle name

Sorry to Lady if it didn't come over like that! My shins are already looking like aubergines. (colour wise, of course!)

seige wrote:

Lady of Mystery wrote:Why shouldn't I?

Because I doubt at your age you have the skills or credentials to perform 'real' mentalism. Read Craig's post on How to Become a Mentalist.

You're right, I don't know enough to pull off a really deep mentalist effect, but then I don't want to either. As I've said, that's not what I'm trying to do, I don't want to come across as a mentalist, that's just not me.

I throw in a few simple effects using a little bit of simple suggestion. I enjoy doing it and my spectators enjoy watching it. I do what I have fun doing, and as long as the mental stuff fits in with everything else, I can't see any problems why me or anyone else shouldn't mix the two.

If it works for you and your specs - and feels good - just do it.

Mandrake wrote:If it works for you and your specs - and feels good - just do it.

though saying that, if ever you are in the barbers, NEVER clean your glasses under the cover of that smock-thing they put over you...looks like you're doing something rather sordid...

but it feels good.....

Actually, with the Mandrake hairstyle strongly resembling Phil Mitchell's, I don't get to visit hairdressers these days.
Not even for something for the weekend

Anyway, back to the plot - does anyone else think that mentalists need to be a 'certain age' to perform convincingly? I always think of mentalists as being perhaps over 40, the David Berglas, Max Maven deep and mysterious persona type of thing. I know youngsters are equally skilled but they sometimes just don't look the part to be doing it seriously. Just a thought.