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amen brother tomo...amen!

oh the irony...

great post Tomo, but waaayyy over my head

Actually, you're all wrong. There was no creation or evolution.

The reason is that we're all living in a massively sophisticated computer simulation. I know this is true because I saw it in a movie!

the reason i posted this topic is...well I'm always talking about it and getting in to trouble about it in school. i enjoy other peoples views.

firstly, scientific thinking, development and research over hundreds of thounsands of years has brought us were we are today. not religion. when i studied medicine through time in history, i got really fed up of it. each stage we went long e.g. from the prehistorics, to ancient egyptians to greeks, discoveries were being made and scientific thinking was becoming more popular. but for everything they did not understand, they blaimed god or one of. religion and superstition.

today, the christian church can't explain and actually deny that certain countrys and islands gradually move away from each other year by year. we've all seen fossils of dinosaurs and great beasts from the past, which were around well before jesus (who was a real man)...the church claims that god put them there...to fool us yeah right! just like the moon is made of cheese.

evolution and science is the more logical answer in my opinion. im currently reading the book angels and demons by dan brown (its a good read), after finishing the da vinici code. the book is about the war between the vatican and illuminati, who were a real organisation. one of the religious dudes makes a grand speach how the development of science and equations, leads to more equations and more equations. here, in many cases, he is quite right.

if there is a "creator" and there is a good chance that there is i do not believe that he/she/it is how any religion today makes he/she/it out to be. yes. i believe there could have been a creator. this is due to my good friend Mike's brother is studying astrophysics in uni. we have all heard the rule that energy can not be created or destroyed. WRONG!

The energy conservation law is violated at microscopic levels due to the uncertainty principle arising from quantum mechanics.

basically, some lab (I'm sketchy on the details but i'll find out when i can) has actually created energy. they claim that the law of energy is very wrong, because if it were true, everything would be a flowing, smooth medium, everything would be the same and we wouldn't be here. this lab created energy, I'm sure something else could have and thats a reason why we could be here.

we'll never know really will we? but it is pretty mind boggoling don't you think?

as for teaching religion in school. I'm cool with it, as long as it is in a lesson. the number of times i have walked out of assembly's due to the teachers telling us to bow our heads and prey. am i going to prey to something i dont believe in? NO! they don't know, there might be some jewish people in there, some seeks, how dare they enforce their religion on us! but in classrooms, is cool, because your learning about how different cultures live and such things
and thats it from me

Yorkshire Pudding wrote:Actually, you're all wrong. There was no creation or evolution.

The reason is that we're all living in a massively sophisticated computer simulation. I know this is true because I saw it in a movie!

the matrix is a hella film! <<---Mr Anderson

Mikey.666 wrote:The energy conservation law is violated at microscopic levels due to the uncertainty principle arising from quantum mechanics.

If I remember correctly, even in a perfect vacuum, virtual particles pop in and out of existence for that very reason - and they're detectable in ways that the early quantum theorists didn't have access to. Interestingly enough, quantum mechanics is now being put to the test in ways that Neils Bohr could only dream about in his thought experiments, and it's not only doing what it's predicted to do but providing surprising insights into even more curious lands. In fact, a new experiment reported by New Scientist last week shows that light can violate Bohr's wave/particle principle. After a lot of shouting (it is a BIG step after all), other labs have confirmed it, and researchers are now beginning to wonder what it all reveals about the fabric of reality.

When you say, "Evolution or Creation?", what you really mean is "let us pat each other on the back for not being one of those nutters!" Hope it feels good

As you may have gathered from other threads, I'm a Christian in science's bed so to speak. I don't believe in 7-day creationism and I accept evolution, but I do believe in God, and believe that if he wanted to have done it in 7 days, he could have done. I also believe that the "why are we here? Evolution, innit?" view takes just as much belief as creationism for your Joe in the street - as I've said before, you have to have faith for a great many tiny possibilities and coincidences, I have only one - that God exists. And if, through life experience despite a lack of empirical evidence, you are absolutely convinced of this fact, it makes it all the easier.

As for "where's the proof then, creos?" - anyone who tries to argue 7-day creationism in a scientific way is missing the point. Genesis tells us why, not how; it has 50 chapters. The actual creation of earth takes up the grand total of... ooh, 1 chapter, and a few verses... does that sound like whoever wrote it is desperate to explain the scientific ins and outs? I would put this point forward: if you were God, and knew people who didn't understand germs or cells would be reading this, what would you put in your book of creation?

You'll notice I use "7-day creationism" a lot - that's because I believe God created the earth, so am I technically a "creationist"? I'm just not sure how he did it.

why didnt he just do the whole thing in one day...

goes to show if there is a god, there's a lesson in it all for us to pace ourselves...

mistress of magic wrote:Alightly off topic but...

saxmad wrote:
My concern is that the Creos want to have their nonsense taught in schools instead of real science.
How do you fancy having someone else's religion stuffed down your kids' throats?

"Stuffing" other peoples religions "down kids' throats" is ,IMO, a rather good idea. Ok, so maybe creationalism doesn't have a place in a science classroom, but what's wrong with things like that being taught in RE. Why not encourage open mindedness and understanding about other peoples beliefs and religions?

When it comes to this issue the problem is very simple; the Christians don't want anything taught but THEIR point of view. If we included the plethora of other myths and lore about creation, the gods, etc. (including the variances found in regards to Judaism and Christian points of view... what theologians still argue over) then yes, your point and idea would be valid as well as practical. Sadly the hard right element of the Christian world feel threatened by such a thought in that their dogma is not strong enough to sustain genuine open mindedness; it is rigid and requires the manipulation of fear and guilt to be sustained and when people, young people especially, are shown options "they" (the priesthood) loose control. That is why BLIND FAITH is so heavily encouraged as well as fear of questioning the authority of the clergy.

Ok, the 6 days were not actual 6 days according to Christianity.

There are plenty of examples of this in the bible.. it uses illustrations throughout

According to Chrsitianity, 1 day to God is as 1000 years is to us... so in reality.. it took 6000 years to create the earth ( or just life that exists on it )

The bible talks of wild beasts walking the earth which represents false religion.. the prositute who gets mangled by the beast represents government institutions which according to the bible will be destroyed eventually.

Certain religions ( eg the one I was brought up in ) actually use many many scientists studies and scientists claims to prove what the bible said.

There are many similarities that exist between the bibles true meaning and scientists studies.

Even if you believe in Evolution, the question has to be asked '' well where did that come from? how did it get here ' it needs to btraced right back. So if someone ( God, aliens, Harry Houdini ) created a bunch of molecules and made their workings so they were able to evolve.. then thats all good.

i just don't like the way people use the word god. creator seems to fit more, a god is a higher being which has control over the lower...if he/she/it is real, does it have control over me? hell no! i do what i want!

Mikey.666 wrote:i just don't like the way people use the word god. creator seems to fit more, a god is a higher being which has control over the lower...if he/she/it is real, does it have control over me? hell no! i do what i want!

The Freemasons call him The Great Architect, which seems more apt. It makes me think in terms of a designer, not a controller, which gives a wider and more reasonable philosophical range of possibilities.

Mikey.666 wrote:hell no! i do what i want!

You're opening up a whole philosophical can of worms there! Personally I'm a Determinist... but that's for another thread.

I agree with pcwells and Tomo and abraxus, in the end it doesn't matter. If contemplating such things is enjoyable to you then that's absolutely fine, but for me it really doesn't matter as in the end it doesn't amount to anything at all.

It doesn't make sense to believe in creation and evolution like some people have stated or hinted at. If you were an omnipotent god, and could create it all with one word, why the hell would you decide that evolution would be the way to go? As, due to the nature of evolution, god would then have to control an infinite amount of other factors to ensure humans evolved to look exactly like we do now, because as the bible tells us, god made man in his image. And if he was going to do all that, why not skip all that faffing around, and just say the word. No sane God would choose this way of going about things.
And as for one day meaning a thousand years, then reading further through the chapter, that would make adam, who apparently lived to a ridiculously old age, thousands of years old. And even if he did, the theory of creationism is still millions of years out.

Hi Andy

AndyRegs wrote:It doesn't make sense to believe in creation and evolution like some people have stated or hinted at. If you were an omnipotent god, and could create it all with one word, why the hell would you decide that evolution would be the way to go? As, due to the nature of evolution, god would then have to control an infinite amount of other factors to ensure humans evolved to look exactly like we do now, because as the bible tells us, god made man in his image. And if he was going to do all that, why not skip all that faffing around, and just say the word. No sane God would choose this way of going about things.

I see your point, but yet again we humans with our little microscopes are telling God how it should be done. The question is, if you're an omnipotent god, why do you have to be answerable to your creations? Few of us would feel it appropriate for a child to criticise it's parents in all but the most dire of circumstances - why, because even if they don't think the parents have done the best thing, they acknowledge that they wouldn't exist without the parent, and in most cases the parents are doing the "illogical" thing for the good of the child, whether they know it or not.

Re. the faffing about - God actually loves to use his creation to bring about his will or plans. Jesus could have come floating down from thin air, but he didn't. He gives man charge over earth, something to work towards... he could have done it all himself in an instant. The parting of the red sea - actually, unlike "The Egyptian Prince" or any of those Biblical story films, we're told that the wind drove back the waters over many nights. Slightly more gruesome - When Herod (I think it's Herod) is "struck down", he (is) "eaten by worms and died" - ie. it sounds like he has some kind of condition or parasite. In both of these instances, God is showing his power, but not with giant hands made of light stretching down from heaven.

And to look at the faith of people today - loads of people (including myself) will tell you that their prayers have been answered in an incredible way - it doesn't mean necessarily mean "supernatural". Think of cooking - I know how much satisfaction I get from watching a good meal (if I don't say so myself... ) come together gradually - if you asked me whether I'd prefer to snap my fingers and have it done in a second, I'd probably say no...

Ultimately, my point would be this: the fact that *you* don't understand why something might happen a certain way does not mean it is wrong. Go down that road and you'll end up like the Christian right