talkmagic.co.uk

Markdini wrote:Dont quote Bill Hicks Tomo he is so over rated.....

how dare you! pistols at dawn sir...i hope dawn doesnt mind....

Is dawn doing breaky for us too?

I dont mind the Orwell quote I like Orwell but please not Hicks although his pro life stint was ok.

People are right in saying that it's not the gun that kills people rather the person firing it. To commit something like murder, you need both the will adn the method, by having guns readily available you're providing a very easy method. If someone breaks into your house armed with a knife and you challenge them, they can either run or attack you, with a knife that would mean closing in on you and physically attacking you. When I was doing martial arts we were told that if you were in that situation and you challenged a burgler, to do so in a way the provided them with a clean exit, because they're much more likely to turn tail and run. Now give that same burgler a gun and he doesn't need to close in, fight, he just has to pull that trigger. Which could be unintentional and just a reflex reaction.

As for guns being available in this country, perhaps they are in South London if you know Markdini's dodgey mates , but I wouldn't have a clue where to get one from. I don't even think I've ever even seen a real gun before.

SOUTH LONDON? How very dare you mrs. I shall burn your house down for that..south London indeed bah!

sarf lundun...no time for it...

nah its alright actually...bullet proof vests are given at the door...

you can even doctor a starting pistol if you're that way inclined...

bring back the large scale ritual humiliation of the stocks and stick the young 'uns in it...innit...that'll sort them, that or bung 'em back up the chimneys were they belong...

and dont get me started on the word "ghetto"...they used to be called working class council estates when i was young...and its highly disrespectful to what real ghettos were/are...they aint got a clue...

It IS easy to buy a gun in the States. In some States it is a trifle harder but still laughable. In other States it is just like purchasing a bar of chocolate and I stand by that statement. Virginia where the tragedy occured is one of those States. There are some cursory regulations but they are quite laughable. To even consider selling a gun to a high school student is beyond belief.

Even if a person is of the highest character they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun under any circumstances.

Every other country in the world is aghast at the gun culture in the US. It is madness. Nobody should be allowed to have a gun unless they are police or army. Perhaps security guards and certain occupations. Nobody else should be allowed to.

I am always amused that the USA considers itself the best country in the world. It ISN'T. It really isn't and never has been.......................

Markdini wrote:Dont quote Bill Hicks Tomo he is so over rated.....

Sane men are often dismissed out of hand in an insane world. It's almost the point

Roy Chubby Brown now thats a social comontator.

I am always amused that the USA considers itself the best country in the world. It ISN'T. It really isn't and never has been.......................

I'm blown away by how you can lump a population of 300 million (5 times that of the UK and nearly 10 times that of Canada) into having one ideology. The United States is diverse not only in racial and ethnic backgrounds, but in opinion--even about our own country.

Personally, I feel that if the US outlaws guns, gun-toting citizens will only turn into gun-toting outlaws. Growing up in a rural area, I've been around guns all my life and have learned to respect them. My father is an avid collector, so we've got 17 different firearms in the house. How many people have I shot? None.

Youth are conditioned to shoot people--look at video games, television, and even the toys parents give their children. They're encouraged to go out and play cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. The answer in my opinion through my research in media and communication, lies not in the possession of firearms but the education and responsibility of how to use them.

Gun owners would have no motivation to turn in all of their firearms; many cost thousands of dollars, and even those that are relatively inexpensive may have sentimental value. It's ridiculous to expect even most of the population to turn in their guns. Furthermore, drugs are outlawed in the U.S., but that doesn't stop drug addicts from getting them.

Rather than attacking a sociocultural issue with legistlation, why not combat it through education? Today's crime rates have reached a low not seen since the 1960s. With further education as opposed to gun control, that number can drop even further.

Markini wrote:

Being the right wing chap I am I see guns good for the ecomany. On the other hand if some one gets shots you can only get funeral money out of them catch 22. Actually I think that in the UK you should have the right to have arms. And dont start the redundent argument if all the law abiding people carry guns every one else will. Well they do already and knives I know of two stabbings round here that happend yesterday. Of course not every one can carry a gun like the leftys or the common you be just asking for trouble. If you are going get all upity about guns then you should about knive, stun guns, pepper spray and very big sticks.

Is this a joke?

Yes you can hurt people with knives, but you wouldn't be able to kill 33 in such a way, like you can with a gun.

At the end of the day, guns are designed to kill. That is there sole purpose in existence.

I have just been watching the news, and eveyone is deserate in America to find a reason why he did it (psychologically unstable, obsession etc), but they are unwilling to even discuss the fact that possibly the fact that guns are so easily available (have you seen the michael Moore film - bowling for columbine, where he gets a gun as a free gift for opening a bank account. I got an alarm clock at my bank!) plays an important part. Yes it is the person that kils, but I think the gun helps!


Yes we get unstable people who 'flip' here in the the UK, but perhaps the reason we dont see such acts is because when someone does 'flip', they cant just go to grandpa's gun store and grab the nearest gun. I'd rather take on a maniac with a cricket bat than a maniac with a shed full of guns!

Also, although not relevant in this situation (but relevant in the wider debate) if you look at the statistics in America, the majority of gun killings are undertaken by family members or close friends (either deliberately or by accident), mainly because in the heat of the moment, a gun was easily accessible . I studied criminology at university, and it is widely accepted that if you relax gun laws, and/or arm the police, it will only lead to on increase in gun related crime. That to me sound so ridiculously obvious, it amazes me that we can even have this debate.

More guns = more people getting shot

Less guns = less people getting shot

Not rocket science

And to finsih this rant...

Yes, most people in the USA have guns and not used them, but neither had Cho Seung-hui until monday.

Just out of interest, where did you study criminology?

PM me if you don;t want to post online.

Tonight's news is even more shocking...

>>> The STUDENT bought a gun
>>> He made the first kill, then returned to his dorm, and sent some videos etc. to the news, and reloaded before the next
>>> He'd been claimed unstable by the authorities in 04/05

All in all, an accident waiting to happen. The 'nonchalont' gun store owner who sold him the 'glock' said 'guns don't kill people, people do'.

Frankly, that's BS. People with guns find it easier to kill people. What the hell is wrong with this world.

I would imagine that if I personally had a gun in my hand every time I'd been overly angry or mortally threatened, I'd have not pulled the trigger.

Personally, I'm stable about taking lives... it doesn't even cross my mind. But I could see how people who's lives are overshadowed by paedophillia and abuse feeling like they have nothing to lose.

I blame culture.

Youths aren't 'conditioned' to shoot people. But given the opportunity, someone who is unstable enought to CONTEMPLATE it will carry it through to the end, I am sure. I know that friends in the US, as an example, have seen gun crimes. I also know people from UK inner cities who have been threatened with guns on a regular basis. It's not new.

Mankind since goodness knows when has taken it's means of hunting and used them for protection, threat and good-old human revenge. Any other animal on the planet who has the means and instinct to survive does the same. But I do feel that this is wholly subjective.

In our humble household (me and my wife) we have two weapons... a high-powered air rifle and a double-barrelled twelve bore which I was gifted. Both weapons are safe, secure and the 'firearm' is licencend and has been unused for 5 years at least.

If someone broke in or threatened us, I'd reach for a rolling pin before the guns, for sure.

In fact, I can't ever remember a situation where I'd touched the guns without feeling humbled by their ability to remove life.

I guess we're just all different. And in lots of ways, I'm glad!

TURN TO MAGIC - NOT GUNS!

"Start with the awareness that art is just good. People doing bad shows is better than people doing good murders and rapes. Art means people are celebrating being alive, even if they do it with Hippity Hop Rabbits."

Teller

Something we should all live by.

My grandfather hunts (hunted? he's almost 75) deer and some small game. Partially for sport, but he used the entire animal. He taught my cousin and I how to care for and use a .22 rifle. But by no means will we ever use it for murder!

It helps that my cousin and I are at least 7000 miles away from the guns at (almost) all times...

...and if games condition people towards aggression and violence, name me 3 games testers that have gone postal...

zen buddhism, thats the way forward i tell thee...

less guns on the earth, the better...i would feel inclined to lump the usa as one, as the majority voted old monkey-chops in again, plus - it's fun!...even though he's a complete loonatic...whatever percentage that was, it was obviously enough...

wars win votes, terror wins votes...he's just manipulated these views and feelings to keep himself in power...

...there has never been an MP that has represented my views, so i have to accept the majority ruling...