talkmagic.co.uk

I started doing a very long, point-by-point response, but realised it was going to send everyone under.

In short, your basic argument that forums' days are numbered seems to be that there's a lot of irrelevancy. You've got people asking the same questions over and over, pointless squabbling (I would say that some arguments can be valuable), egos, people too lazy to search, general chit-chat, multiple threads on the same subjects and other things getting in the way of the 'real' purpose of a magic forum - to give people information.

The problem is that this isn't the purpose of a magic forum, but part of it. A forum is a social place. Unlike a chatroom, people can drop in or out of a conversation any time, and it doesn't matter too much if they are in a different time zone. Once people have made contact through an open medium on a topic of interest, they are free to PM, e-mail, msn, phone, text, write, or even meet up in person (shocking, I know). The threads on a forum are where the interaction starts.

Maybe the changes to the internet will bring about new methods of networking, but the next big thing (as I understand it) is interactivity with internet pages.

Forums are already interactive.

Your suggestion of a massive archive seems to solve little in the way of the difficulties you perceive, while creating new problems (searching and a lack of help and feedback, to name two) and doing away with some of the important elements of a social gathering (which is one of the aspects of a forum).

First, if you haven't already done so, please read this:

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic25658.php

There have been some people who are fed up with the same old topics coming up, while others have no problems with it.

There are already stickies in some parts, with advice in. Maybe some could be updated or added to?

For example, when somebody asks about which book to buy, the result can be people suggesting one book, for another to say it isn't any good, get this one instead. Others may join in that discussion, with the actual question being lost and the person being none the wiser.

Would a sticky which had the most common suggested books be worth it?

Each having a short piece about it, with a link to a review or thread, if available?

The question will still be asked, but the person can be directed there. If they still have a question, they can post on their origional thread. At least they will have some idea, rather than conflicting reports.

In a way, i am suggesting certain things are put into archive form, in the way of stickies, but as somewhere we can guide people to, to get them started on their answer. They may then have specific questions, which are better than general ones, as they can get the advice they need.

Maybe this is one way of helping new members, giving them encouragement that they will be given help, or directed somewhere they can find that help.

I would also suggest that with certain books, not only their title, but the shorthand used on the forum is explained.

It can be funny for a new member to be told not to use text speak, then see a post recommending RRTCM or MWCCIM!

Note, i am not suggesting the help in a sticky is restricted to books.

Could stickies, whether help ones or rules, be in a different colour?

On a side note, my origional choice in the poll was only to provoke others to vote. My choice would have been to have discussions to encourage more people to post.

With this change, the results including both forums so far are:

Stay the same, there isn't anything wrong with them 33

An in depth discussion is required, to encourage more people to join in threads 6

I have only taken the top 2 from the polls, as these were the only ones I was seriously asking about anyway.

There is more that I am still looking at from the answers, but will leave it at that for this post.

One suggestion that has been made elsewhere is that we could end up with too many stickies.

Maybe a heading in the top part of the board could include the basic information, written just for that heading?


Some comments have been that forums may be getting more a social thing, with new topics just being about the latest magic or dvd's that are released.
The social part I will comment on later.

As for the latest releases.

Many have learned from experience on here. They have spent money, just to realise that an effect isn't for them. Many that are experienced, know that the latest thing could be just what they are looking for.

People new to magic haven't got that experience. When they ask about the latest "trick" the forum has a service to provide, not just to them, but our Art also.

We can try and point them in the right direction, advising, (or linking to somewhere with that advice ) the things they need to consider. Many wont take that advice, some will dismiss the forum for being a waste of time, as they just want to get a good trick to show off.
Others will take note, which will help them, and stop exposure from underpractised effects. It will also mean that more people will see magic performed, rather than a trick being shown.

Some need to make their own mistakes, some may then come back.
The better a forum is set up to help those starting out, the better for everyone involved with magic.

At present, I am posting general answers on both forums. I will answer specific points later, on the forum those points were made.

I seemed to be against the mods on forums, but by now, you should realise that I am not.

There have been posts defending and praising them, which I am pleased about.

Lets face it, although one from each forum knew beforehand the general reasons behind the thread, the content could quite easily have been locked by another. I am sure it would have been elsewhere!

So thank you to them, for letting the thread continue. I had intended to let it run for another day, but guessed most people who wanted to, had said their piece about the origional post.

Without them, differences of opinions would turn into all out arguments, which would kill off the forum!

Note,

I had to say the above or they said they would send the mob round to break my legs!

I made a big thing about forums becoming more of a social center, rather than about magic as such.

There are, or soon will be, no doubt, better ways for people to discuss ideas between specific people, or on ideas for projects they don't want made public.

BUT

Who is going to get in touch with somebody who says they are a magician, without knowing anything about them?

It is clear that the discussions on forums create an element of trust between regular posters. PMs of advice, answers and creation of new routines can start.
Those people may then find better ways of communicating, but the forums are the way they start off. So although it may seem that not much creative might be happening on a forum, they have allowed people to join together, to help create something new.

With this is mind, there IS a difference between how new, or low post count members are treated, which must be expected.

The more a part of a community you become, the more that community can help.
a
I will go back to my point about new members again.

The polls between the forums show that 33 want the forums to stay as they are and 6 want discussion on how to encourage others to post.
It feels that there is some reluctance to post by some, maybe because they feel intimidated by the size of the forum and posts. ( Rather than by the members or mods with "the lads"!)
Part of the social aspect must also mean we have to find a way to make others included.



EDIT



For those who still may not be sure of my intent, could I explain a bit further.

Not only did I find the fall in numbers of posts alarming on the forum that I mentioned earlier, but I felt that there have been times when the numbers of posts on magic forums in general had dropped.
I decided I wanted to do something to find out if there was a reason for this, or if this trend would continue.

It took a week of hard thinking before I came up with my origional post. It was aimed at gaining a true, cross section reaction.
I made sure that a mod was aware that I didn't agree with the opinions I was posting, but felt it was a better way than the usual questions about forums, which get shouted down.
I feel that some of the responses have been made purely because of the provocative wording and style of that post.
A few members that used to post alot, now don't with some of them giving reasons here on this thread.
I decided to play the bad guy and knew (and hoped) that people would react against that.

I now ask that you read some of the comments by others again and the comments I have recently made. As others have pointed out, the amount of posts I have made doesn't appear to tally with me trying to close a forum. I felt I had spotted something that could be worrying in the future and wanted to act beforehand. I did this because I WANT THE FORUM TO GET EVEN BETTER, if that is possible.