talkmagic.co.uk

Hey guys.

I want to ask you guys on your opinion of using stories/plots for your effects.

Personally, I do not use stories. Well... the only effect I use a plot for is Out of this World (I believe the version that I use is called Order this World... not sure). Other than that, for other effects, I am quite direct in my approach. I do not see the need for a story when doing most effects (yes, there are those that the story may be crucial). I feel that the spectators will concentrate more if your approach is direct, without a long-winded story that may just bore them.

What are your views? (No arguments please )

I actually prefer effects with stories. I do mentalism so a lot of that is telling a story, for me at least, so the audience understands why I'm doing some of the stuff I do.

I see your point but it's really one of those, if you like it great if not oh well. Story telling magic and magic are two different things. I don't especially like story telling magic as there is less magic going on more of a story, but when I performed magic, looking back, without a lot of stories.


Now doing mentalism I prefer telling a story with my mentalism as opposed to performing it like an experiment. So I kind of contradict myself saying I'm going into psychological effects.

So it really comes down to if you like it okay, if you don't that's just your loss, or gain depends on how you look at it, but if you present it with a story, I feel that you can connect with your audience more, say you perform an effect with a sad presentation, for example PK Touches, you can get the sympathy of the audience on your side which distracts from the secret.

That brings me to another point, using story telling in your magic can be used as a form of misdirection. If you tell the story right. It can also add personality to your magic, If your funny, tell a funny story.

That's my view, you don't have to agree but that's how I see it. So for me it's a pro, as opposed to con (of course) it can be used to your advantage if you do it right.

(The power went out because of a tropical storm here and I thought I lost this post and it made me mad because I spent a long time gathering my points. But it's safe.)

For straight up card work, I don't normally do a "story" type effect. In fact, I only have 1 effect that works an actual story around it.

I don't have a problem with either style - but I do find that story presentations often go on too long. If you can keep it concise and interesting, it's all fair game. I agree with Ian that most story-based effects sacrifice a bit of magic for the story - which is bad.

For me, it's not so much about having a story - it's more about having a point. I don't like to walk up and just do a trick for the sake of doing a trick. To me, you're just showing off.

I just recently attended a Patrick Redford lecture - and he touched on this concept in a way that really hit home for me. He has a published variation of his own Ambitious Card Routine. At it's very core - it's a pretty standard ACR. However, it was his approach to the effect's presentation that sets it apart from others. In fact, he spoke of performing a lecture seminar where he performed the routine his way, then had a magician come in and perform it as a straight up card trick. Afterwards - not only did the audience enjoy Patrick's more - they didn't even realize the routines were identical.

I think that's a wonderful situation that should make you really focus on the "why" of your performances. I don't think you need to weave a full-on story - but some measure of presentation (for me) is essential.

all magic has a plot. Your choice, is how to Ilustrate that plot.
I dont think that in this day and age, magic should have a strict story, for each move.

this has two built in dangers.
one, it becomes a descriptive patter line.
two, it becomes twee, and predictable.

In this months reel magic,there is a review for the book Aproaching magic, by David Regal. He shares his thoughts on scripting.
scripting an effect, can be something as simple as a one line. for example...

" My grandfather once showed me something amazing.."

this hook, draws in the audience and captures their interest.

and this simple aproach is one i favour above full scripting.

I think if the story runs through and alongside the trick well enough, it can further enhance the effect.
The one Derren Brown did on Jonathan Ross and his Wife about amazing coincidences between couples was quite nice and wouldn't have been half as good if he'd left it out and said at the end "oh look, you've picked matching cards".

As well as that, the stories he told were apparently true, albeit altered a little in trivial details to match the effect.

MagicBell wrote:I think if the story runs through and alongside the trick well enough, it can further enhance the effect.
The one Derren Brown did on Jonathan Ross and his Wife about amazing coincidences between couples was quite nice and wouldn't have been half as good if he'd left it out and said at the end "oh look, you've picked matching cards".

As well as that, the stories he told were apparently true, albeit altered a little in trivial details to match the effect.

There again, This was a hook, rather than a full script.

daleshrimpton wrote: tThere again, This was a hook, rather than a full script.

Well, it was a pretty long ongoing planned line of speech. If that's not a script then what is?

If by "script" and "story" you mean "pointless aimless talking through the effect" then of course its rubbish.
Although at the same time, your speech is part of the misdirection so...

in this instance it was a hook.
a few lines of dialogue to introduce the premmis of the effect. I.E The bond between couples.
then it lapsed into descriptive patter. I.E Instructions to each player in the effect, eg.. "shuffle the cards, now put them under the table...ect"
and the climax of the routine where both cards are shown, spoke for it's self.

Derrens skill in this presentation, is making the whole thing flow.
Other routines he does, have a much tighter fully scripted patter.
as an example, the work he did on the David Tennant episode on teh last series.
this was mostly tight scripted patter.

Personnally, I like stories but it depends on the routine. Some things just amaze by themselves and can sometimes benefit from being performed in total silence.

dat8962 wrote:Personnally, I like stories but it depends on the routine. Some things just amaze by themselves and can sometimes benefit from being performed in total silence.

Which is perhaps why Teller never speaks while Penn never stops!

I wouldn't necessarily agree on this occasion as I think that Teller's silence is more about them as performers that the routines that they use.

Either way, it's not the context that I meant

dat8962 wrote:Either way, it's not the context that I meant

Not really the context I meant either, I just found it interesting that they employ both methods at the same time...

I see

I think it's become their 'brand' and wouldn't work for anyone else.

No stories, keep it pure, if anything use real life situations that have happened to you to use in your "story" nothing irratates me more than a magician/performer who does the same speal each time he performs....


"right so theres four burglars and they need four coppers in a house blaaaaaaa blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

weve heard it all before so have they and its not fun, original or authentic...be natural and dont make it to flowery...

When at my cousins recently (he's into magic aswell), before showing me an effect he said (in front of me):

"Come on, think of a story, comon a story"

The story wasnt that good, and detracted from the effect ( the one about drunks in RRTCM).

Anyway, to get back to the point, story doesnt have to be a full blown story ( or poem ref: michaels Jays kigs and queens card routine which is pure fantastic bye the way) it could just be a logical plot, giving reasons for everthing that you are doing, and allowing for choreographed misdirection.

On the other hand, hooks, with actions and explanations can be effective (david blaines ACR), it just depends on what trick/mood/show/style you are in/using.