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The holy grail of flourishes would be to do some kind of inverted card spring - whatever that is - and to have one card "accidentally" fall to the floor. You ask the spectator to just name any card, and pick up the card to reveal it is the very same... That would be my dream

Rufio wrote:The holy grail of flourishes would be to do some kind of inverted card spring - whatever that is - and to have one card "accidentally" fall to the floor. You ask the spectator to just name any card, and pick up the card to reveal it is the very same... That would be my dream

Ha! Easy as pi!
Or you could drop 51 cards and still be holding theirs! i think that one might be easier.
To be fair you could spring 51 cards into the air, retaining the top/bottom card (their card) then reach out and act like your picking one card from the air, could be nice. But then you have to pick cards up.

Lawrence wrote:Next stage: An inverted card spring! Go....

I do it quite often and it's a real attention grabber. I usually do a normal spring and I say I can sometimes break the laws of gravity, then I do an upside down spring. And yes... laymen do buy it. Same principle as the muscle pass, except that I personally don't find dropping a coin normally as impressive as springing the cards.

Lawrence wrote:

Rufio wrote:The holy grail of flourishes would be to do some kind of inverted card spring - whatever that is - and to have one card "accidentally" fall to the floor. You ask the spectator to just name any card, and pick up the card to reveal it is the very same... That would be my dream

Ha! Easy as pi!
Or you could drop 51 cards and still be holding theirs! i think that one might be easier.
To be fair you could spring 51 cards into the air, retaining the top/bottom card (their card) then reach out and act like your picking one card from the air, could be nice. But then you have to pick cards up.

There's that scene in Paul Wilson and Lee Asher Hit The Road where a magician they meet does that but combines it with a back somersault and seemingly grabs it from the air. There's something horrendously undignified about a magician bent over on all fours picking cards up....

Heh I'm also with the guitar crowd... I'm pretty sure playing for 8 years or so has made things easier, maybe partly because I'm used to practising the same thing over and over again slowly to get it perfect.

I also find it funny when people think that springing the deck shuffles the cards. But it's when I give the cards to a spectator and they do a perfect tabled faro when I start getting REALLY worried...

An inverted card spring is doable if you've got a powerful enough regular card spring. Can't say I can get the same distance with it though...

Rufio wrote:... There's something horrendously undignified about a magician bent over on all fours picking cards up....

Haha so true.

Lady of Mystery wrote:I'm rubbish at any type of fancy pants card stuff. When I first started I tried to learn it but then just thought, what's the point and it gave up for things I thought would be more useful.

Lady of Mystery is spot on. Are we magicians or jugglers?

Why does dexterity with card flourishes make anyone a better magician?

I am sorry but I would rather do a spot on DL than a one handed fan any day. One can produce magic the other only the impression that you might be a card sharp

Johnny Wizz wrote:

Lady of Mystery wrote:I'm rubbish at any type of fancy pants card stuff. When I first started I tried to learn it but then just thought, what's the point and it gave up for things I thought would be more useful.

Lady of Mystery is spot on. Are we magicians or jugglers?

Why does dexterity with card flourishes make anyone a better magician?

I am sorry but I would rather do a spot on DL than a one handed fan any day. One can produce magic the other only the impression that you might be a card sharp

Noone has advocated sacrificing sleight practice for flourish practice. But why not dress it up a little? Only idiots would assume that what you are doing is magic in the mystical sense; ergo the only explanation is that the "MAGICIAN" is a card sharp of sorts. Nothing wrong with dressing up your work a little.

All dinner plates serve the same purpose. So why have so much choice?

Whatever

I hope you were stamping your feet whilst you typed that.

while being decorative some flourishes do serve a purpose beyond that. the fan or the ribbon spread being examples of that.

In the interests of discussion, I beg to differ, although I agree in part that flourishes do not make you a better magician. I do feel, and this is just my personal opinion which people may agree or disagree with, that flourishes do have their place in magic, however, as they add to effects by being incredibly visual. Also, as memorire states, they actually serve a function too, as in the ribbon spread. There's definitely a school of thought that would say they distract from magic and, yes, people may just think "ah he's just clever with his hands" and discount the effect... that school of thought, if extended, would say that a certain element of clumsiness or dropping cards, for example would then make the magic effect when it does happen - that unexpected revelation for instance - all the more magical. My attitude towards flourishes is kind of in between.

However, it's not just the aesthetic visual appeal that makes flourishes like those deliciously crafted bits of nut clusters you get in Nestle Clusters, oh no. Of course, magic (meaning the overall effect) cannot be achieved mechanically by doing flourishes, but they do add variety. For instance, a thumb fan in offering cards for selection is much more visually appealing than just fanning from left to right. Of greater intrinsic value, however, is the impression created in the minds of the spectator. I've come to learn over the last year that magic is about the presentation, meaning predominantly patter. However, first impressions count, and if you were to simply nonchalantly spring the cards, it instantly tells the person that you know what you are doing, and are not just someone who knows a trick written on the back of a cracker. It's also really satisfying as well.

Of course, to go the extra mile and see yourself as an XCMer, would be self indulgent with no consideration for the audience - a bit like Steve Vai, when really an understated Joe Santiago of The Pixies would have much more consideration of what the audience needs, as opposed to some kind of finger trill or whammy bar stunt (sorry for the constant guitar references). Of course, for those who do flourishes there would be an assumption that sleights are spot on first, as really being unable to do a DL but being able to do a Cobra Cut (utterly pointless) would be like being able to do a helicopter break dancing move, but being utterly incapable of dancing normally. Like the classic Running Man move, for instance.

My thoughts are that flourishes are part and parcel of the skill of magic. Yes, I agree we're not jugglers saying "look what I can do!", but used in moderation (flourishes, not the Running Man), they convey the idea (subliminally / blatantly / quietly / loudly / effectively) that you are in fact a "proper" magician, and not just someone with a fleeting interest in showing tricks. I'm not professing to have a flair for flourishes, nor will I flourish at every single opportunity, as it would distract and lose its novelty in the spectator's mind after a while, but in my mind it is the ONLY opportunity to publically show any skill, as by their nature, a sleight should pass by undetected or disguised with misdirection as that's its raison d'etre.

Accordingly, on that basis, as I think there's a correlation between a spectator recognising and associating displays of skill or showmanship (as well as, of course, good patter and a bond of general bonhomie and banter) and the need for sleights to be invisible, the only way for that to manifest itself is via the occasional flourish.

spot on Rufio!

Though i might add magic can also be achieved by flourishes only. making the spectator believe you have an empty hand and then producing a fan with it is pretty much magical especially if you have a dove to sit on the fan as an added bonus

best regards

Good point too!

In fairness, yeah, an Erdnase colour change is pretty damn magical; on a point of digression, certainly more so than the colour changes found on that dusty Royal Road. Fear not, i think we're talking the same wavelength here!

Very well said. Pretty much exactly how I feel on the issue. I don't wish to come across as some Steve Vai with cards but to show an amount of skill. I believe Sankey said the same. "Learning to spring cards is priceless. It says you're a skilled worker rather than Uncle Four Jacks" - I'm paraphrasing of course.

Springing even has a sleight application as demonstrated in Devils Picturebook.

Or it can be used as misdirection in itself. Impress with a spring then use the offbeat to sleight.

As for the guitar references, have you ever noticed how those who show the most disdain for fretboard dexterity are also those severely lacking in technical ability? I always believed that mastering the hardest things make the easier bits much easier.

Rufio hehe thats gooooooood

Gary true And the TDPB application of the springing is really genious

flourishes should be applied sparingly though. too much and you are a juggler. or you base your whole show on them. which is also very nice

so i see no reason not to learn them and speaking of it - still trying to master my fan perfectly heh. unfortunatly. but oh well one day it will happen!

and you are absolutly right - being able to do difficult sleights enables you to simplify the mechanics of a trick...make it look more natural somewhat.

greets