talkmagic.co.uk

You asked...

1. Ditch the golf/magic link. Confusing and irrelevant.
2. Do not have any 'under construction' pages. i.e. Clients and Videos, add the pages when you have the content.
3. Black writing on a white page is good - easy to read.
4. Don't underline headlines - it looks like they should be hyperlinks.
5. Get some better photos for the 'shows' page. Particularly close up reaction shots of your audiences.
6. Layout is clean and simple - good.

Good luck.

Keith Hart

black hart wrote:1. Ditch the golf/magic link. Confusing and irrelevant.
2. Do not have any 'under construction' pages. i.e. Clients and Videos, add the pages when you have the content.
3. Black writing on a white page is good - easy to read.
4. Don't underline headlines - it looks like they should be hyperlinks.
5. Get some better photos for the 'shows' page. Particularly close up reaction shots of your audiences.
6. Layout is clean and simple - good.

Thanks for the thoughts...a couple have already been considered...hee is some of the rational behind why things are done the way they are...I will take some of your points into consideration for sure...

1) I have three seperate sites...a golf specific advantagegolf.ca a magic specific magicoftrevormoore.com and a joint page trevormoore.com I do get many people that book me for both situations at the same event....golf lecturing, teaching, etc...with magic and emcee for their evening banquet, so the tie in is quite relavant to my work. When poeple want magic I send them to the magic site, golf to the golf site, and the utilizing my name just simply allows people a chance to search and hit me by name only and still find me regardless of what they were searching for magic or golf.

2) Under construction pages are there because I do have the content for them, simply having to rework the way the videos will be posted, as well as finalizing the cleint list to ensure accuracy on spelling, etc. Your point is well taken, and we debated which way to go and decided that this way was the best as it would be ammended in short order

3) Thanks

4) Never thought about the underlined headlines...and love your point on that...likely will make that change.

5) Working on the photos for that page...we do all our own website updating in house, so we will be updating photos, etc....as soon as we get appropriate ones...it will be evolving all the time

6) Thanks

Your point is well taken, and we debated which way to go and decided that this way was the best as it would be amended in short order

So upload the pages when you have completed them if it can be done that quickly! Under construction pages make the site look unfinished (which it is) and unprofessional (which it is not).

Okay, re: the golf/magic. I am speaking as a possible client here. I look at the front page and I think "What is this guy?" "Well, I'm looking for a magician not a part time magician golfer or whatever", so I move to the next site.

I should imagine that only a tiny minority of magic site visitors will be people who you have met at one of your golf functions. Plan the site for the majority.

I have more than one business and the sites are entirely separate with completely different domain names etc. Yes I MAY give my contact details to one client for one business about one of my other businesses but then they can go straight to the relevant site.

I have a great personal distaste for sites that open with a page which I then have to click a link to 'Enter'! If I have gone to the site then of course I want to enter it! The 'front' page is a distraction and an annoyance. I believe that research has shown that many people are turned away by 'Enter' pages. I see the golf/magic page as such a distraction.

It is of course up to you as it is your website. Anyhow this advice is FREE so you can ignore it at no cost!

Keith Hart

black hart wrote:I have a great personal distaste for sites that open with a page which I then have to click a link to 'Enter'! If I have gone to the site then of course I want to enter it! The 'front' page is a distraction and an annoyance. I believe that research has shown that many people are turned away by 'Enter' pages. I see the golf/magic page as such a distraction.

Yep, that's true. It also negatively affects search engine optimisation. I suggest you link to the golf site on the bottom of each magic page, and vice versa

kolm wrote:

black hart wrote:I have a great personal distaste for sites that open with a page which I then have to click a link to 'Enter'! If I have gone to the site then of course I want to enter it! The 'front' page is a distraction and an annoyance. I believe that research has shown that many people are turned away by 'Enter' pages. I see the golf/magic page as such a distraction.

Yep, that's true. It also negatively affects search engine optimisation. I suggest you link to the golf site on the bottom of each magic page, and vice versa

I totally understand what you are saying....my question is this; maybe I am not making it clear enough, or maybe I am clear enough and you still dislike it.

I have the trevormoore.ca site - the one in discussion - as the domain is my personal name...it is not the main page that I send people to. I send golf clients to the golf site (advantagegolf.ca) and they find the golf website only, magic clients to the magic site (magicoftrevormoore.com) and get magic only site....the page you are all linking from trevormoore.ca is simply a third domain name that I have and rather than have it sit idle I have it link to both the other sites....this simply gives me a second site that can get hit when searching...does this make more sense? Let me rephrase this...go to my site by using magicoftrevormoore.com and you will see you get straight to the magic site, bypassing the other page altogether....does this not solve the problem you are all seeing?

I am not arguing with any of you...simply "asking questions" to make sure I/we are understanding the situation....I truly am interested in the feedback, so please don't take this as "NO..I don't like what you are saying" I just think that you are all viewing it by going through the trevormoore.ca link....the reason that is posted in my profile on TM, is simply because it is a profile of who I am so it tells you all a little bit more about me.

Let me know if this changes what you are seeing and how you are viewing/entering the site.

As for the loading of pages when they are ready...I am not totally computer savvy and my page layout/template from the graphic designer has the "headings" already on it....how would I go about loading it up without the heading showing...would be interested in knowing?

kolm wrote:Yep, that's true. It also negatively affects search engine optimisation. I suggest you link to the golf site on the bottom of each magic page, and vice versa

I like the thought here....but what would you suggest I do with the third domain name? Should I leave it idle...any thoughts?

black hart wrote:
A) Okay, re: the golf/magic. I am speaking as a possible client here. I look at the front page and I think "What is this guy?" "Well, I'm looking for a magician not a part time magician golfer or whatever", so I move to the next site.

B) I should imagine that only a tiny minority of magic site visitors will be people who you have met at one of your golf functions. Plan the site for the majority.

C) I have more than one business and the sites are entirely separate with completely different domain names etc. Yes I MAY give my contact details to one client for one business about one of my other businesses but then they can go straight to the relevant site.

A) Interesting point you make about the "part time this and that"...
B) I do have quite a few crossover clients...but that is not the main reason for the combo page
C) Read my other post...I do have both sites seperate...this is a third page that I have chosen rather than sitting idle...any thoughts on what YOU would suggest doing with the third site - rather than use it.

Again...not arguing, please keep the advice coming...you are making some very valid points and some will be taken.

Again...not arguing, please keep the advice coming...you are making some very valid points and some will be taken.

Yes, but remember that any potential visitors will not 'understand' your rationale, they will only see the first page and make a decision whether to enter in less than 1 second! You have this fraction of a second to make them decide to look further into your website or not. The easier it is for them to do so the better.

Some years ago when I was starting out with my 'Black Magic Theatre Show' my Director, Gordon Astley (BBC Radio Presenter and Butler for our 'Haunted House Nights', told me to drop the first effect of my show - 'Power of The Tarot'. He said that whilst it was a great effect it was not suitable as it could not be seen by people at the back of the audience. I love the effect and it was the first 'bizarre' effect I ever did so I insisted on keeping it in.

"It doesn't matter how good an effect is if people can't see it." Gordon said. Well I gave in eventually and guess what? The show was better for it.

The moral here is that Gordon was on the outside looking in at what I was doing from the perspective of a member of the audience. I was not. I was too involved to see.

Remember though whilst it is YOUR website you are not the person using it.

Ah! I have just checked out the website again and now I know what it reminds me of. When attending various trade shows and exhibitions I have occasionally seen a small stand (shell scheme for those in the trade) which is being shared by two different companies (though they may have some connection). Whenever I have seen this it has given me the impression that they are both very small time and can't afford to each have their own stand.

First impressions count.

Anyway as I said before, the advice is free and I'm not offended if you don't agree.

I wish you good luck.

Keith Hart

Go back to the first post and retry the link....I have made a couple changes based on peoples ideas...still more work to be done.

black hart wrote:
So upload the pages when you have completed them if it can be done that quickly! Under construction pages make the site look unfinished (which it is) and unprofessional (which it is not).

How do you keep pages off the site until finished rather than "under construction" The pages are built into our main graphic and we can't seem to find anyway to keep those pages from uploading without having them go nowhere...but they still show on the menu. Does it look worse to have them go nowhere, go somewhere as "under construction"...or would we have to get a graphic designer to build an entirely second set of templates to use....that is not in the budget.

This would be interesting to know for future refernce...anyone?

What web software are you using? I would simply delete the hyperlinks in the navigation bar. Then the pages would be there but 'invisible'. Of course you could always upload some content to the pages. It doesn't need to be much just so long as there is something. For example for 'clients' all you need is a list of companies you have worked for. You can add logos etc. later.

For example:

Here are just some of our clients:

RE/MAX Medalta Real Estate
Esplanade Arts and Heritage Centre
Alberta Health Services
Raymond James Ltd
Community Futures Entrecorp
etc. etc.

On the videos page put a photograph - repeat one you have used elsewhere if necessary - and some blurb. Don't use the words 'coming soon' however.

BTW it seems that the link is now going straight to your magic site. Much better.


Keith Hart

moodini wrote:How do you keep pages off the site until finished rather than "under construction" The pages are built into our main graphic and we can't seem to find anyway to keep those pages from uploading without having them go nowhere...but they still show on the menu. Does it look worse to have them go nowhere, go somewhere as "under construction"...or would we have to get a graphic designer to build an entirely second set of templates to use....that is not in the budget.

This would be interesting to know for future refernce...anyone?

You don't use graphics for navigation, and that's the reason it's bad practice to do so

black hart wrote: BTW it seems that the link is now going straight to your magic site. Much better.
Keith Hart

Yes...it is now a totally different website/domain address listed in teh first post....See that was the confusion that I was trying to explain....the link you all received in the original post was simply a third domain name that I have that I decided to use to join the two together....it won't be used in promotion, unless someone is asking for my joint services...that leaves me with a magic only domain/address (the new address listed in the link) for magic promotion (that is direct to the magic website; it doesn't link through anything else/page), a golf only domain/address for golf promotion (that is direct to the golf website; it doesn't link through anytthing else/page)...so for the purposes that you are discussing, you can see that it is directly to the golf website...not routed through a "enter here link"

The third website/domain (which was the address shown in my original post before I edited it to contain the magic only website) is just a website that links to the other two services...and is only used to serve a couple of basic functions:

1) Just another way that I may come up in searchs, increasing odds of getting hit.

2) Provides more links to my two "REAL" sites and we were given the impression that the more unreciprical links your site has the better it will show up in searches

3) Gives those customers that are after both services, a site to got to that will direct them to information on both by only needing one address to be remembered.

I was doing exactly as you guys were saying all along...but the point that I was unable to make was that the magic site is a dedicated site/address all of its own...and when I changed the original link/post it appears to have gotten you to where you felt I should be...I was there all along only wasn't able to get you to see it that way.

The only reason I used the joined domain was because it was the site I listed in my profile...only because the profile was more to tell TM users a bit about me, not for promotional uses...I have since changed it to reflect the magic only one as well to avoid the confusion.

I did make the changes to the underlined font as you suggested. We also thought about leaving the links (video and testimonials) dead as you suggested but debated which way looked worse...obviously you suggested the "under construction" looks worse in your mind...a non issue really as that will be updated in short order anyway and the problem will not exist on that end. Struggling a bit with the videos, so we may end up linking to some generic videos of my favourite magic clips rather than of me personally for the time being....your thoughts on generic videos rather than mine...do you feel people would be expecting me?

kolm wrote: You don't use graphics for navigation, and that's the reason it's bad practice to do so

I am seeing that now....will keep that in mind in the future!

Black Hart and Kolm

Thanks for your input guys!