talkmagic.co.uk

i was owndering what u guys thought of ellusionist.con (i am meaning to put .con)
the reason for putting this is ellusionist is a con, 99.9% of there tricks and selights can be found at your locally libary or on the internet ofr free. so really they charge sky high prices for been taught by some1 who is a great teacher. But u could still easy learn yourself all the stuff they teach. Only thing good about ellusionist is brad christian hes great, but there are dark secrets about ellusionist i will not disscuss here that they have done to several of my friends.

Penguin magic:- look at elluionist.con then look at penguin magic. I know where my money would rather go to. Penguin sell origonal tricks, not old tricks we new names.

Now i know this post if ellusionist se it are going to be mad but they know its true they just dont want you to know. like i will tell u a little story (its true).

Right i just started to learn magic i was searching for websites and on every search ellusionist poped up. so i decided to go on it i loved then i saw u had to buy all the stuff i was gutted. i sent a email to them asking why they dont give away free tricks and things. Obiously they are there to make money so thast hwat they said. I emailed agian asking what about the people who want to learn magic but cant afford to buy the secrets they said that was just hard luck. But very kindly they send me a pdf version of 'Royal road To card Magic' This was very kind of them but later on when i read it andlearnt the tricks. I managed ot get hol of ellusionist vids. I found out 90% of there tricks are in royal road to card magic under different names. This shocked me made me laugh. Well i would love to hear you comments on ellusionist. thank you

Ben bale

rebadgeing goes on a lot with magic tricks as most people have there own take on a trick, if your concerned that elusionost are breeeching copywright then speek to the authors of royal road.

very few sites who are comercial give away free tricks and when they do they tend to be well known ones with no real sale value.
to learn magic you need to spend money just like any other hobbie, you can find the basics around the net but in the end you will need to join a club, buy a book or other media to progress as well as purchasing the needed props.

since most magician's have had to pay through the nose for secrets they may already have you cant blaim them for not wanting to give there hard earned knowledge away to any one that asks, iv'e just had to fork out £120 to replace worn out props, which i will actualy learn nothing new.
so if someone came up to me and said tell me how to do so and so but i cant pay for your time and experience, you can pretty much guess what my answer is going to be.......
exactly, you could at least buy me a coffee .

i teach magic to kids who show an interest and a respect for our craft and am always happy to point people in the right direction as you have found out yourself, and yes most of the time i make a charge and yes i teach stuff i have learnt, the stuff not under copywright that is.
if i teach someone the handleing say for the colour changing kings to aces they have to purchase the effect, well pay me to get it, but they still have to pay.
if a child has purchased a trick then i will often give them advice on better handleing free of charge unless its said lesson's.

as far as elusionist is concerned I'm not sure they have broken any laws even if they have repackaged effects from royal road if there royalty free.

I have to say this ellusionist.con thing is quite old.
Have you ever seen Ammars The Exciting World of Magic, or Jaw Droppers, or On The Spot?
These are so poor you might just hurt yourself watching them, yet these people aren't abused on the net, why?
I have to say that I found Brads videos to be very good for the starting magician, very good indeed.

I think that magic is a business, Sankey, Ammar et el all charge for their secrets, so does Brad. You could watch a Ninja video, for example, and not know anything before but have the tools to do an AC routine afterwards. Compare the price of that to paying 20 quid for a Raven, 10 quid for the video and more for the shims etc.

I don't get any value from his videos these days, I admit they are short on sleights and short on value for where I am at, but what he shows he shows well and explains them in a way that a new guy could follow.
After all, that is who they are for.
Brads explanation of slowing yourself down, speed comes naturaly not forced etc is worth the price alone to a new guy/woman.
"Freeze the frame, look where every finger is, where it has come from and where it goes" Quality for a starter.

Nobody gives stuff away much, apart from those not allowed to do so.
You didn't even pay for the videos?
They sent you a free pdf, saving you £10 on the book.
99.99% of magic is recycled, just how many things can you do with 52 cards?
Sorry am I getting on my box here ? It sounds like you got a good deal

It isn't the sleight that is magical, it is YOU, no DVD can ever give you that, imho.
Seige is great at routines because he is Seige, Tom is great at making things that scare me bacause he is Tom and Mandrake hasn't ever been in a carry on film ?! (not through lack of trying though). No DVD would turn me into any of those talents.
Watching a DVD will not make you a magician and any half interesting DVD that is slated is maybe due to the reviewers shortfalls as much as the DVDs.

Brad isn't for me but he is just a guy trying to feed his needs by way of work, he isn't a con man, he's just a guy with skills that some are willing to pay for, some are willing to see for free and have a go anyway, some just don't like.

I am not having a go at you, just the whole something for nothing, follow my leader forum stuff, it has been done to death on every over forum.
If I am misguided I am sorry and beers all round.
In this instance I am indeed full of myself (see other thread) and guinness so please ignore me if it helps

I shall now go and drink a pint

BaB

hey you know I'm fair when it comes to my comments and dont flame people though i may dig a bit, i have to agree with seige.

one point though if you get something for free or by other meens then you shouldnt comment about that, if you paid your hard earnt money for it then feel free.

did this guy do something bad to you in this life or a previouse one

i havent seen any of his vids so i cant comment on his style or presentation, but i can say your not making friends easily here and we are realy trying to put it down to your age and inexperience, but its getting harder by the day.
i want to give you the benefit of the doubt i realy do, so i hope you have just been missguided and will get back on track soon, my hopes go with you.

i have to agree with seige.

??

bab sorry the post was so long i asumed it was from seige .

ok i have to agree with bab then.

my point is ellusionist.con files they are copyies of old tricks with new names like what they call sick aces its known as poker players picconic. and ammar and sankey etc.. i dont havea problem with there products because they made the tricks them selves nto just copy form other magicians work and igve it a new name. 90% of what they teach can be learnt in words.(thast ellusionist stuff)

magicdiscoman wrote:bab sorry the post was so long i asumed it was from seige .

ok i have to agree with bab then.

Err.... I'm flattered

just slightly detracting from the subject a little.... i find it funny that in Bens pdf file (topchange) the spelling /grammar etc are all correct and theres no problem reading it but trying to read his posts in here is appalling.... so PLEASE ben could you spend the couple of seconds extra to possibly punctuate and maybe even check spelling?

Well, well, well...

Here's a quote that we devised here where I work (advertising agency) as a sort of slogan:

"Think of us as an investment for your business, not an expenditure"
I.e. to make money - you need to spend it. And I'm sure that all of the working pro's on this forum will agree with me on that.

Now, what's been said above is getting into the realms of a tricky conversation... which is mainly the fault of the Internet, I think...

Before the Internet age, magic was extremely hard to come by (well, it was for me, living out in the sticks miles away from a 'main vein' town or city such as the Magic capitals of London or Blackpool etc).

Magic, back then, was aimed at the serious performer - the paid performer. "magic for the masses" was confined to £15 Paul Daniel's Magic Compendiums or Marvin's stuff.

Hardly 'giving the game away' - but it allowed youngsters (myself included) to become our heroes for a short time - by emulating their performances with our paddle effects and coin boxes.

REAL magic items, such as the RRTCM, ID, Dynamic coins and the likes were VERY expensive (i.e. my first dynamic coins cost me as much in those days as a full tank of petrol).

So - why should YOU feel the world owes you anything all of a sudden?

What gives you the right to demand that someone shouldn't be charging you for 'rebadged tricks from the Royal Road to Card Magic', when you DIDN'T EVEN BUY THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE?

The REASON a lot of this stuff costs money is that somebody, somewhere, had to fork out time, blood, sweat and pain in bringing these effects to the world. It's not a charity. It's a business. These guys are good at what they do, and that's what they do for a living.

And no - there's no such thing as a free lunch.

What makes me laugh is that today's internet-savvy, broadband using masses have a wealth of knowledge, music, pirate video, pornography, literature, books, manuscripts, services - ALL AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

This is stuff people have toiled hours over. This is stuff that people have grafted over. This is peoples WORK.

And you're here, telling us that you're getting it for FREE - and you STILL have the cheek to moan about it?

Whatever your motives for learning magic are - I'm sure they're not to earn money. Anyone with a business head or even the slightest knowledge of working life will appreciate that anything you get for free in the world today is a gift for which you should be grateful.

Ellusionist.com is a lucrative business. It provides a service for budding magicians, or even 'Blainites' - wannabe's who just want to have the knowledge. Yes - it's at a price - of course it is. Whether it's a document, pamphlet or video. This is knowledge which is quite sacred to those of us who are serious about the Art of Magic. And it's knowledge that comes with a price tag. That's what stops every Tom, Dick and Harry doing it.

I mean, I'd really like to be driving around in a Lambo Diablo - but unfortunately - it's not within my financial reach - which puts owners of the vehicle in a league of their own. And yet, the only way I would ever own one is to either raise the capital, or steal one...

Hmmm... steal one... or be given one. Which is more likely here?

The hard work and dedication of all the 'paid' magic teachers should demand some respect - Sankey, Daryl, Ammar, Christian, Roth, Hugard, Braue, Marlo, Anneman - the list goes on and on and on.

But then again, in a society where it's no challenge to not have to pay for music, movies or even magic, anymore - why should we expect gratitude?

Sorry, soapbox rant over. And this isn't a rant aimed specifically at you, Ben. It's a general rant which will hopefully make those of you reading this who ARE getting a free ride realise actually how lucky you are.

I'd really like to be driving around in a Lambo Diablo - but unfortunately - it's not within my financial reach

... LIAR!!!... hehe

I can only think that with the advent of the internet that plagiarism will only get worse.

Before the WWW I guess that if you wanted to sell a book through the usual channels and it found to be full of someone elses ideas, that either permission hadn't been granted, or the original creator hadn't been credited. The book would have been black listed and removed from the market place and the author hung, drawn and quartered.

The last thing you want to do is to buy a new miracle and find out it is the same as one you already have except they have added a top change to make the effect "different"

Which is why the Reviews section is important.

just throwing in my tuppence worth but in my opinion Brad Christian is actually a good teacher.. he explains stuff at an easy to follow pace now wether its a brand new original effect or a rehashed old one an "instructional" video is just that... instructions on how to do sleights/effects and in this capacity Brad fits the bill quite well

What makes me laugh is that today's internet-savvy, broadband using masses have a wealth of knowledge, music, pirate video, pornography, literature, books, manuscripts, services - ALL AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

we do??????

be back later... hehe:mrgreen:

by the way seige i was serious about the Lambo....i know a guy who deals in cars and for your cossie and Discovery you could be in there!