talkmagic.co.uk

Ian the magic Ian. If you had watched America's Got Talent you would have seen the 14 inch scar.

Ray Noble: Of course no one can condone threatening behaviour, spousal abuse etc etc. After being 'on top of the Magic World' to fall so far from grace, you must, as a well balanced human being, feel sorrow for them both.

I was shocked some years back to discover my great idol, Dante, after too much alcholol, had hit a man so hard, he had to have his jaw wired up.
When I finally heard the rumours (and this is all that was ever 'proved') that Kalanag was 'An Opportunist of the first order', co- operating with the Nazis (though he did save at least 2 Jewish magicians), I was equally shocked.

THAT did not and never has, stopped me admiring their staus as great Magicians & performers.
The thrill & experience, they gave me, of watching such polished Magic in the Theatre, (Mr. D only once but Kalanag 3 times) has never left me.

It is a matter of separating the man from the Artist.
Look at the lives of some of the great painters, actors, dancers & magicians.

Somewhere in my files I have a letter from the late Val Andrews; I have just about all the letters he wrote me over 20 odd years; though several have faded. in which he told of a magician who 'left; this country and was almost certainly a murderer.

Allen Tipton

oh come on.. "not proved."...The blades of ompha incident proves he had connections somewhere.

Dale what are you talking about???

Do you mean Harbin's 'The Knives Of Opah'

If so what is the story?

Allen Tipton

he had the demon telegraph on his desk, and a crude prototype built within days of publication.

Aye, there seems to have been no hesitation about one magish stealing another's effects back in the golden days of magic - Chung Ling Soo worked for two of the greats and stole/took secrets with him and back again!

Dale you are leading us off the subject whcih is JP.

However the book with Knives of Op.,'Demon Magic' was published in 1938, and anyone could have built it.

As far as my research goes, Mr. K didn't use it till his first illusion show in 1946/1947. I have it in his first programme of this show, 'Carneval of Magic (his spelling) Kalanag in his magic revue'Simsalabim.
The illusion was 'billed as 'The Twin Guillotine in a safe'-- What happens to Miss Gloria-- and everything is sealed.
Then naughtily (but they have ALL done this) 'Originated by Kalanag'

He did however nick and claimed Sim Sala Bim as his own.

Prior to 1946 he was just an amateur conjuror; his 'biggest' trick a version he forever kept in his show) was the Vanishing Dove in a Breakaway Box (presumabely bought from Davenports)
I have a video of him performing this in 1944.

Allken Tipton

Or were you thinking of Jim Somers and the ZigZag?

Allen Tipton

Ray Noble wrote:He shot the floor this time, which is to say that next week it may have been her.

This is so silly that it barely deserves a reply...

If he had punched the wall and put a hole in it (which wouldn't have been against the law), does that suggest that next time he will punch her? Not harldy.

Had he taken a ball bat and bashed the vase on the counter (which wouldn't have been against the law), does that suggest that next time he will take the ball bat to her head? Not hardly.

If I say, "You make me so damn mad that I want to kill you," does that mean that I'm actually going to kill you? Particularly if you are my wife or significant other? Not hardly.

Good gads - the guy put a bullet into the floor. Not into his wife (if he was going to do it, he would have and not waited until a more oportune time in the future), not into the dog, not into some innocent bystander, not into the neighbor's house.

In the general scheme of things, there are much, MUCH, worse reactions than putting a bullet into the floor.

Unless, of course, you are the floor.

Mike.

Michael Jay,

Wow, your post I don't mean to be inflammatory but just oozes ignorance on such things as violence against people and anger management.

Abuse is a building process most people do not go from fun loving to wife beater in one go it takes time. It starts with yelling and then shoving or even throwing objects around the house until it ESCALATES to a confrontation.

This incident is very scary in two factors. The first of which was that he brandished a weapon in an emotional turmoil state for the purposes of causing fear. Indicating that he is making a genuine threat that if things proceed he will use the gun on the person he is arguing with.

Secondly while he was in this emotional state he still had enough mental capacity to shoot into the floor which was calculated. This makes him even more dangerous as it means his emotional stress can escalate to the point where can still achieve critical thinking with self justification.

The man needs therapy I am not saying he would kill his wife or even harm her. I am saying is that he is so far past the social norm for acceptable emotional release that he needs to be taught new coping mechanisms before the mechanisms he is using (Violence and fear) become overwhelming.

So for the sake of all the counseling I have done to rape victims and abused spouses (men and women) please do not say things like, 'He just shot the floor.'

I have been in the room when a gun is discharged and I can assure you its not as casual as you make it out to be.

And I was in the room when my mother shot and killed a mouse in the kitchen in our house with my dad's .45 Colt revolver. I was 8 years old at the time and other than my ears ringing for some time, it really wasn't the end of the world.

I will suggest that while you say that I am ignorant to things such as violence towards people and anger management, you are ignorant as to what it is like to be married to an insufferable harpy. I know full well what it is like to have a woman physically block the doorway to stop you from leaving the house because you have come to the end of your rope and need to get the hell out of the house before you blow up.

It is infuriating. It is unacceptable.

You don't know what transpired between husband and wife to get someone to the point of discharging a firearm into the floor.

Nevertheless, discharging a firearm into the floor and shooting someone are two very, very different things and stating that she would be next shows absolutely no knowledge of what is and what may be.

He could have simply grabbed her by the throat and choked her to death (how many millions of times has that happened in history?). He could have grabbed a knife from the kitchen and sunk it into her chest (how many millions of times has that happened in history?).

What happened was he took a firearm and discharged it into the floor. Maybe, just maybe, he needed to shut her the hell up for 5 minutes before he had an all out anuerism.

You don't know. You weren't there and you are in no position to speak with any real knowledge on the subject.

I speculate, as do you. So, we are both ignorant. The difference is that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (or, as we call it in my country, innocent until proven guilty).

Mike.

As Infinite is also in the US I guess he has a similar 'local' appreciation of the way things are. In the UK, discharging a firearm in anger during a domestic incident is still a shocking and unacceptable thing so we will have a very different point of view.

I can see that Jonathan may very well have reached the end of his tether for some reason and it may have been something which under other circumstances would have been dealt with less alarmingly. Let's wait for the full facts before judging him and others.

I stand by this decision in all aspects whether it be John Terry or Johnathan Pendragon...

What happens in his personal life although I may not condone it does not effect his ability at doing what he does and as I think this is a magic forum to discuss magic I don't see why his personal issues need to be a point of focus.

TLS

If a public figure decides to fire a gun in a dangerous manner and gets jailed for a year, or decides to sleep with the ex-wives and partners of his teammates, of course his personal issues become a point of focus. It's very blinkered to think otherwise.

Although this is a tragedy for the Pendragons I am delighted he did not get away with it. He's obviously a disturbed and dangerous man.

The point I am trying to make is that although I do not condone what he has done and agree if he has broken the law then he should be treated like anyone else. Although I don't think it should be the main focus as people don't like him for his partnering skill they like him for his effects and brilliant... same as John Terry people have affairs everyday although he is being paid to play football and it doesn't effect what he is paid to do.

Being a 'public figure' for being good at what you do does not mean you should have all your private affairs discussed as though all the facts may not be known and you only get the medias jaded portrayl of the events and who are you to judge anyone calling him 'disturbed' when all you have to judge the man on are the jaded fifth or 6th hand information you get through media outlets.

I am not looking to start an argument although I don't think my views are blinkered in the slightest and think if people opened there eyes alittle bit more they will then realise that there is more to alot of things then what you read in the papers.

TLS