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Craig Browning wrote:most alternative medicine actually strives to "cure" the problem

It's just a shame then that apart from in the occasional anecdote, alternative medicine "fails" to cure the problem.

Craig Browning wrote:Why don't you each dig back about a century in time and look at when medicine was a political issue within society and how, via "lobbying" pharmaceutical companies along side organizations created by certain types of "doctors" were actively and even viciously (as in lynchings) seeking government and legal sanctions suppressing the validity of anything outside what they offered.

Just like the church and how it paints anything outside it's point of view as evil so elements like the AMA paint alternative treatments including practices like Acupuncture that have been used very successfully for over 2,000 years... same with herbs and other treatments. Catch is, most alternative medicine actually strives to "cure" the problem while standard western medicine seeks to mask the symptoms.

Craig, a century ago, evidence-based medicine wasn't all that popular. We were suffering at the hands of authoritarian doctors who put more faith in their own experience than evidence of which drug worked best for which ailment.

If we return to the present day, not only do we find that doctors are increasingly EBM minded and are seeking to avoid the authoritarian stereotype, we also find alternative practitioners being authoritarian, putting their own personal experiences above the evidence-base, and attempting to close down discussions and fair appraisals of their remedies. That's why so many homeopathists will give you different diagnoses and remedies for the same list of symptoms.

What is more, homeopathy, by its own system, is a symptomatic remedy rather than a cure of the underlying cause. Its understanding of illnesses is largely superficial.

And finally, pointing out flaws in EBM doesn't validate alternative medicine. Why would it?

If alternative medicine worked wouoldn't it just be called medicine? I'd still have Kate here if it worked.

Craig I think you just want to be right about something, but I lost a really good friend to this rubbish this year and you're really upsetting me.

Surprisingly David Berglas once told me that he believed in alternative medicine. However he was a bit vague on which alternative. He had Bell's Palsy and after the conventional treatment didn't work he tried all sorts of alternative medicine from hypnosis to homeopathy. Loads and loads of different scenarios. He was cured. He had no idea which therapy cured him but he knew one of them did and was pleased with the results nevertheless.

A conventional doctor once told me that there was a lot of good in alternative medicine but there was also a lot of rubbish out there. The problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff. And his argument was that alternative practicioners aren't subject to the same safeguards that normal quacks are.

I don't trust doctors of any sort. I think the conventional ones kill you just as much as the alternative ones do. And of course the doctors are in bed with the drug companies who have the consciences of marshmallows. I have seen with my own eyes when performing at corporate events how the drug companies wine and dine the doctors.

The doctors always chatter about the risk/benefit ratio when prescribing their poisons to you. Of course it isn't them taking the risk. I always reply that it is me taking the risk and the drug companies taking the benefit.

mark lewis wrote:Surprisingly David Berglas once told me that he believed in alternative medicine. However he was a bit vague on which alternative. He had Bell's Palsy and after the conventional treatment didn't work he tried all sorts of alternative medicine from hypnosis to homeopathy. Loads and loads of different scenarios. He was cured. He had no idea which therapy cured him but he knew one of them did and was pleased with the results nevertheless.

Bells' Palsy gets better over time. I think all the above goes to show is that if you throw enough s___ at a wall...

Craig Browning wrote:Just like the church and how it paints anything outside it's point of view as evil so elements like the AMA paint alternative treatments including practices like Acupuncture that have been used very successfully for over 2,000 years... same with herbs and other treatments.

Oh wow. Can we define successful here?

Just because something has been around a while is absolutely no indication of it's value or efficacy. The practice of human sacrifice has been around for a while and there is no reason to believe it brings a gods blessing but cause it's old it must be true.

Catch is, most alternative medicine actually strives to "cure" the problem while standard western medicine seeks to mask the symptoms.

To paraphrase: The wrong it burns!!!

Harry Guinness wrote:Just because something has been around a while is absolutely no indication of it's value or efficacy. The practice of human sacrifice has been around for a while and there is no reason to believe it brings a gods blessing but cause it's old it must be true.

I imagine human sacrifice is pretty effective way of curing disease. Certainly solves a lot of the sacrifices problems. Solid method of population control as well. Less disease from overcrowded living conditions.

Craig Browning wrote:Catch is, most alternative medicine actually strives to "cure" the problem while standard western medicine seeks to mask the symptoms.

Not true

mark lewis wrote:And of course the doctors are in bed with the drug companies who have the consciences of marshmallows

Not true in the UK

Mr_Grue wrote:Bells' Palsy gets better over time

True (Although the recent evidence suggests it's worth treating with steroids).

There's been study after study after study done on homeopathy and it all comes back the same. It scores the same hitrate as a placebo. Because it is one. I'm not interested in what somebody "knows in their heart is true", or how somebody "feels" about modern medicine or its practices, I'm interested in results that can be tested and measured, because when it comes to making ill people well, that's the only thing that counts. And the results for homeopathy don't look too healthy. Just like the people who swear by it.

I'm not a doctor so I can't weigh in on this like Farlsborough can but I've done the research on homeopathy, and the next time I'm sick, I'm still going to the GP.

Will this unremitting stream of utter quackery never cease? http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... iphone-app

On a vaguely related note, after Aleister Crowley's father was diagnosed with cancer of the tongue, rather than have surgery performed by the top physicians of the time, Edward Crowley took the advice of his fellow Plymouth Bretheren and put his faith in a homeopath. A year later and he was dead and young Aleister started what he described as the 'boyhood in hell' with his neurotic mother and his Uncle Tom of whom he wrote "no more cruel fanatic, no meaner villain, ever walked this earth." Obviously one can't hold homeopathy totally responsible but I can't help but wonder how the great beast might have turned out if the father he adored and admired so much had lived just a little longer...


Not that I'm trying to stir anything up, of course.

Farlsborough is right despite being both a doctor and hailing from Yorkshire. British doctors are not in bed with the drug companies the same way they are over here. Canada is better than the US but even here the doctors are unduly influenced by the drug companies. They say they aren't but I have seen them guzzling the wine and eating the food when I have been hired by drug companies to do a show.

My British cousin is one of those dreaded doctor types. She is here in Toronto for a year working at a hospital and when I asked her if she saw any difference between Canadian and UK medical practices she mentioned money seemed to be the main characteristic. She said that Canadian doctors chase the money a bit more than British doctors do. Of course in the Excited States of America it is even worse. Greed may not be too strong a word.

Alternative medicine is very big in Canada. However I often wonder why the people who work in health food shops always look so sick and emaciated. Not that I am a cynical type of course.

Which reminds me. I found great amusement wandering around a hospital and found a leaflet meant for the medical staff which had gone astray. It obviously wasn't meant to get into the hands of patients. It basically instructed doctors, nurses and all the other people who are trying to kill you to humour the patients who waffled on about alternative medicine.

It said words to the effect that if patients rattled on about alternative medicine the doctor should conceal his disapproval and providing the treatment didn't do any harm humour the patient and nod approvingly. Then of course dispense the usual poison.

Something like that anyway.

Oddly enough I have used hypnosis to stop people smoking. It seems to work. So I suppose I am an alternative health practicioner myself. Of course I know perfectly well that hypnosis is a load of cobblers.

The placebo effect is a most wondrous thing. I once spoke to a staff member of one of those awful studies of new drugs that haven't quite been approved yet. Incidentally they always have a doctor on staff who earns big money participating which is another example of how the drug companies have the doctors in their pockets.

Anyway this staff member informed me that she had seen many amazing cures of diseases in her time. Not from the drug treatment but from the people who THOUGHT that they had received the drug! It seems that in those studies they give some people the drug and some people not. However the belief itself cures people of what ails them. The mind is a very powerful healer.

Craig Browning wrote:Why don't you each dig back about a century in time and look at when medicine was a political issue

So you don't think medicine is political now?

Unsure what the point you're trying to make? That medicine is run by big companies?

I can't remember anyone denying that Mr Browning.

This was a thread about how homeopathy is a load of nonsense. You seemed to be suggesting it wasn't? Not sure what this history aspect is about?

Craig Browning wrote:Just like the church and how it paints anything outside it's point of view as evil so elements like the AMA paint alternative treatments including practices like Acupuncture that have been used very successfully for over 2,000 years...

No no, no one is saying homeopathy is EVIL Mr Browning, we're all just saying it is complete nonsense and doesn't work.

Just after I made the last post the wife of one of my clients phoned me. Her husband has been to me for readings. It seems he has cancer now and is on chemotherapy which the doctors want to stop for a while. She wanted me to help him.

I can't. I told her I can't. And I warned her not to give money to psychics for crazy cures. She is from Africa and is prone to that sort of nonsense.

However I told her that she should keep on with her treatment and trust the doctors. (Not that I think she should of course). I also told her that I would conduct a metaphysical ceremony to help him. The placebo effect is all I have. Let us hope it works.

Beware of the psychic business. It is tougher than you think. I notice Ian Rowland doesn't tell you how to handle the above situation in his book which I can assure everyone is full of tosh. Intelligent and well written tosh but tosh nevertheless.

Excuse me. I must away to my conduct my ceremony now. And to those cynical types I am going to surprise you by actually doing it. It involves the Sun card in a tarot pack. I will not explain it. I sense unbelievers among us.

mark lewis wrote:Just after I made the last post the wife of one of my clients phoned me. Her husband has been to me for readings. It seems he has cancer now and is on chemotherapy which the doctors want to stop for a while. She wanted me to help him.

I can't. I told her I can't. And I warned her not to give money to psychics for crazy cures.

You sir, have just gone up in my opinion.

Mr Browning? I'll be honest and blunt. Maybe it is because I have come home from a night out and am under the infuence of alcohol. Either way, I'll say it - Edited: you may disagree, but there is no call for this type of comment
There, I said it.

*applause for saying out loud what everybody is thinking*