talkmagic.co.uk

CutToTheAce wrote:Mr Daniels virtually singlehandedly created the antagonistic, challenging, mocking approach to spectator management

In that case I withdraw my commendation. I didn't know that he was responsible. Shame on him.

It depends on your point of view. PD was very strongly a 'cheeky chappie' of course, born of the tough working men's clubs of Middlesbrough and similar places where being gentle and tactful was a sure fire route through the exit door without it being opened first, but he was never offensive or foulmouthed, certainly not on TV or in family shows, which is what the point of this thread is all about. The English language is abundantly rich in wordage , it's a pity that the same few gutter level words are seen as being somehow valid and essential to 'edgy' comedy or magic.

Quite right Mandrake. The odd thing is that even though those clubs were tough as nails and you had to have an aggressive approach bad language was considered a no-no nevertheless.

As for the idiotic observation of moving with the times I am afraid that is the problem. Magic should continue to be performed in the old way full of courtesy and good manners rather than the disgraceful profanity laden aggressive insulting style which is prevalent today.

When these young pup magical idiots can reach the artistic heights of those gone by they will have achieved something.

And of course you can be funny without swearing. Tommy Cooper was probably the greatest comedy magician of all time and nary a swear word
(onstage at any rate) and nary even a blue remark.

THAT is the mark of a great artist. The rest of you who advocate this sort of tripe are merely "perfeshanals" and very bad ones at that.

As for Derren Brown and the other nonenities mentioned it should be realised that although swearing may attract a few fans from the lower dregs of humanity at the same time it turns off those of a more respectable disposition in greater numbers. It is a very bad move business wise and artistically. Not to say morally corrupting.

sorry this may get deleted but Mark you sound like such a ****!!!

Bellars my boy. I have only two words to say to you. The second one is "off".

The first being "Not-on-but"?

mark lewis wrote:Bellars my boy. I have only two words to say to you. The second one is "off".

Oh my, that isn't Mr Lewis swearing is it? But it couldn't be, that sort of tripe is a very bad move business wise and artistically, and not to say morally corrupting.

There are no swear words in my post. As is well known I am a very upright individual.

I must again refer to Tommy Cooper who used to swear like a trooper off stage. However he was able to separate this tendency from his onstage performances. Not one word of profanity uttered on stage during his long and successful career. Methinks he did a little better than Jerry Sadowitz with this approach.

Interestingly enough Tommy, like myself was a grafter in his early days. If you don't know what a grafter is no doubt you have led a sheltered life and by dint of such shouldn't be allowed to swear in the first place anyway.

mark lewis wrote:Methinks he did a little better than Jerry Sadowitz with this approach.

I must admit I belt out a hearty chuckle at that comment!

Mr Bellars, if I may be as bold as to refer to you as my friend, don't take Mr Lewis' comments personally

He's a a bit of a character, but a funny one with a very...unique...sense of humour

Im scottish, whats wrong with ******* swearing?

Personally, I'd love to see Guy Hollingworth drop a couple of C-bombs. I don't think i'd ever stop laughing.

I am Scottish too and I do not swear. Please do likewise.

damianjennings wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:Well, as an old sailor & carney I can tell you point blank that the use of "blue" language on stage is simply WRONG and gets you nowhere fast! If reveals general disrespect for your audience (that is, if you're not catering to bottom feeders) and it likewise reveals the extent of one's own IQ... so to speak.

Derren Brown swears quite a lot on stage.

Does that mean he has a low IQ?

Penn and Teller? Stupid are they?

Or even Derek and Clive for that matter.

Thou art splitting hairs again, and deliberately so.

You have likewise left out the fact that these people have the income that allows them to generate work on their behalf and generally buy a type of public image. Show biz is the one industry where anyone with the money and connections can create the ILLUSION of being something of import... or have we forgotten about some of the poor little rich sluts that keep hitting the news?

The other thing you are not considering with your little jab is that what I stated is what was taught and stood by for generations... well into the mid-1960s when such low language became an issue for the U.S. Supreme Court. Prior to this point one could be cited for indecent language or expressing blue humor in mixed company because of moral factors (religious motivated) and what most considered "proper etiquette". So you may want to consider what I said as an echo and not a matter of pure personal opinion. However, in nearly 40 years on stage I've yet to find a single thing that justifies the use of low language in said venue. People must make an excuse that not just justifies their lethargy and dependence on such language but the lie they know they speak by screaming about "freedom of expression".

Reverend Browning. I am afraid we are fighting a losing battle. And that is a very sad thing. Magic seems to be taken over by the crude, profane and insult humour school of thought that would be unpardonable in our day.

But perhaps I am too pessimistic. In fact I am sure that I am. I bet we have the majority opinion after all.

Mind you I wonder sometimes about the old days. I came across a very old magic magazine from the 1920s or so. I forget the name of it. I was highly shocked to see a miser's dream sequence described in the magazine where a stream of coins would be produced from the genital area of a spectator on stage. It looked like the chap was urinating money.

Perhaps the old, old days weren't quite as angelic as we make out. Mind you I have never seen this performed thank the lord. On the other hand I have a horrible feeling that my mentioning of this is going to make certain people among us add this idea to their repertoire.