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I don;t believe in coincidence that much

This Bronnikov stuff really is complete and utter [EXPLETIVE DELETED].

hahahahha! Hilarious!

Discussions are now in place of bringing the Bronnokov method to Britain...

Tomo wrote:This Bronnikov stuff really is complete and utter [EXPLETIVE DELETED].

Agreed. That bit where he wouldn't reveal what was in the box was priceless. Why on earth wouldn't he tell Derren what was in the box, apart from not really being able to see into the box ???

I was dying for Derren to show us what was in the box at the end, 'cos I guessed ..... erm I mean I saw a brown teddy bear in the box

Beardy wrote:I don;t believe in coincidence that much

>sobbing< Chris, we didn't mess with the lights. Honest. It was Baftas night! We were late! We talked on the phone when we were stuck in traffic. The night was rushed and I never felt like I settled into my stride because we were late arriving. We didn't have time to mess with the lights. We...

Oh forget it.

*cough*

These guys reminded me very much of 50s Dianetics. All the Bronnikov people had to do was produce one blind person that could see. Just one. They couldn't.

Hubbard wrote Dianetics and described in it a "clear", someone who had essentially removed the influence of any negative unconscious memories they had. He went on at length about their abilities, that they would have perfect recall, improved vision, and so forth. When the book was published they didn't have any clears. People cried out for Hubbard to produce one, and he tried, but the subjects he put forward for testing always fell short. His director of research left the foundation because Hubbard seemed more interested in selling his therapy than establishing its effects. Or how to prevent it giving people psychotic breaks.

Sixty years later and Scientology still hasn't produced a clear. But they keep on keeping on...

themagicwand wrote:

Beardy wrote:I don;t believe in coincidence that much

>sobbing< Chris, we didn't mess with the lights. Honest. It was Baftas night! We were late! We talked on the phone when we were stuck in traffic. The night was rushed and I never felt like I settled into my stride because we were late arriving. We didn't have time to mess with the lights. We...

Oh forget it.

Apart from when in the interval your co-host "happened" to fiddle with that *exact* lightbulb!

I felt sorry for Ivan, the son. He has been brought up on the stuff and he seemed really creepy. At one point, his dad mentioned that Ivan had started learning it over 20 years ago. The poor guy must be seriously messed up in the head. Before that was said, I had a seething hatred for him for telling that poor wheel chair bound boy that they could cure him.

Derren looked bored from the start as if his mind was already made up. I wonder if it was a personal goal to see them debunked as I had expected him to do last weeks trick of letting the viewers decide it's validity.

I missed this one. From what I hear, I didn't miss much really? Anyway, what's next week's?

Its amazing what you can do with B.S, P.K Touches, and a blindfold.

Nobody was completely blind on the show, and It's a medical fact that by allowing a small amount of light to enter the eye, you can often see much better.

hence the blindfolds on "blind" people.

It sounded like a cross between Scientology and yer basic 1920s-vintage spiritualism/occultism.

All the "Matrix" chat about shifting your mind to different levels of consciousness is identical to a 1920s book in my possession discussing higher planes of existence. The exercises are the same as you'll find in books about how to develop psychic powers and develop senses on the astral plane (the only exception being that occult books don't include many two-person exercises). Even the bit about drawing power from the urogenital system is not a million miles away from the idea of chakras.

I think he basically scrounged some ideas from New Age beginners' manuals, gave them flashy new terminology, and is touting them round as an amazing new system of self-improvement.

daleshrimpton wrote:Its amazing what you can do with B.S, P.K Touches, and a blindfold.

And they didn't even do that! As Derren said (paraphrasing), "If I was running this sort of scam, I'd at least do a few tricks to show the people what the programme was supposed to let me do. This is just a guy talking."

whats interesting is, that when Derren said this, for the first time ever, he was using Magicians Logic.
If you did use tricks, you would then have something that could be proved to be fake.
Its hard to prove this when you only have the spoken word, and years of Hear say to go on.

this is why the fake medium,from the other week( and 99% of the mediums out there ) fell on his backside.. he used methods that can be proved fake.

what you should do is sit down and just talk... using little snippets of info you know, or can guess, and a ton of stuff that can never be looked up.

Perhaps they don't do tricks because the believe it themselves. Even if the founder doesn't believe it, his son and followers might.

Robbie wrote:It sounded like a cross between Scientology and yer basic 1920s-vintage spiritualism/occultism.

Yup. According to Hubbard, Operating Thetans do not use their physical eyeballs in order to see. Instead they "mock up" (create through intention) gold discs that sit on top of their physical eyes and see using those.

One of the niggles I have about the idea of dualism and ideas of externalised or disembodied souls is that there's nothing there to perceive with. Indeed, if we think of our retinas as screens onto which the world is projected, they only allow us to see by absorbing light. Spirits, though, are invisible, so even if they were to have something that anatomically resembles an eyeball, if there's no light being absorbed by its retinas, then it's not going to see anything. And that's just perception. I think the average dualist underestimates how much of their identity is a product of their physical self. Those at the dull edge of new age philosophy - those that are intelligent enough to identify these problems, but are too invested in their beliefs, have to come up with gold contact lenses and inner psychic screens as a means of explaining away such wrinkles.