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mark lewis wrote: The mentalist I had in mind was someone else who had no desire whatsoever to be a celebrity mentalist as it might mean getting out of bed before midday.

I heard something similar in an interview between Andy Nyman and Marc Paul (on Andy Nyman's 3 DVD set).

Kroot, my boy. I am also talking about his work. And his use of NLP is nil. His use of body language is nil. And his use of psychology is no more than any other magician's use of psychology. And yes. He is a MAGICIAN doing tricks.

I have decided that Kroot is quite impertinent and have therefore decided not to make him a celebrity. Serves him right.

mark lewis wrote:I have decided that Kroot is quite impertinent and have therefore decided not to make him a celebrity. Serves him right.

Damn. Me and my big mouth

In your initial post you said that everything is a trick and there is no psychology whatsoever. But he uses just as much psychology as the standard magician? Do you not agree then that Derren may use strictly verbal psychology, priming, convincers and all the likes to get results of an effect? The sort of methods detailed in the Naked Mentalism series? Surely, that is not a mere trick but the use of a skill far greater than a mechanical technique: Knowing the spectator? I wasn't being impertinent, i was simply giving an opinion which i think you have confused with disrespect simply because i don't agree with yours. I have no wish to make an enemy of you sir, so shall we knock this one out of the park and be friends? Pretty please?

Friends? FRIENDS? How dreadfully impertinent. Presumptious even. I do not wish to be "friends" with anyone especially those who are silly enough to disagree with me.

I have not read the book in question on the grounds that I do not approve of the title. It sounds dreadfully vulgar. If by verbal psychology you mean the chap talks too much then of course I agree with you. But 90 percent of mentalists talk too much. The amount of "psychology" used is around 10 percent and in any event is a tiny part of what the enquirer who started this thread wants to know. He is under the delusion that "psychology" is the main secret when of course the main secret is nefarious trickery.

Of course all good magicians use psychology in their work. I myself am a master psychologist. But the psychology I am talking about is a different kind of psychology to the kind that Derren Brown claims to use. It is a background psychology to the performance. It isn't the psychology that supposedly reads the person's thoughts. That of course is a trick.

mark lewis wrote:Friends? FRIENDS? How dreadfully impertinent. Presumptious even. I do not wish to be "friends" with anyone especially those who are silly enough to disagree with me.

Now who's the impertinent one?

If you refuse to read such books on psychological mentalism then how can you even claim to know anything about it?

The psychology behind the presentation is what makes a good mentalist and/or magician, there's more thinknig involved around it then one might think. Building one's character and presence is just as important as learning how to sw**ch an envelope.

And yes, the starter of this thread did indeed want to learn the techniques that Derren says he uses which you claim are non existant. For the most part i agree, it is a trick. But there are some things that Derren and indeed other mentalists create through psychological means. Derren's forcing of the 3 Diamonds for example and the old '37' force for a starter. Maybe you should pick up a book like Naked Mentalism and enlighten yourself, instead of judging a book by its cover, which you somewhat literally have.

No, no more please.