talkmagic.co.uk

My favorite response is:
"wow! how did you do that? No, don't tell me I don't want to ruin it"
or something along those lines

When magicians see a trick and try to work out how it is done they:

recall if they know a similar effect
watch to see any familiar moves
look for any sleights
look for any gimmicks
go through their knowledge of magical sleights and gimmicks
use their knowledge of magic methods to wonder how they themselves would achieve the effect


When laymen see a trick and try to work out how it is done they:

use common sense

Jon Allen wrote:When magicians see a trick and try to work out how it is done they:

recall if they know a similar effect
watch to see any familiar moves
look for any sleights
look for any gimmicks
go through their knowledge of magical sleights and gimmicks
use their knowledge of magic methods to wonder how they themselves would achieve the effect


When laymen see a trick and try to work out how it is done they:

use common sense

Professor Richard Wiseman did a test of magic when he performed a perfectly clean ambitious card repeatedly, magicians couldn't find 'the move' despite watching it over and over again. Laymen immediately jumped to the correct conclusion of a deck of all the same cards.

Mirage Deck > One-way forcing deck

Check out Extreme Mental Effort by Derren Brown for a rediculously incredibly effect with a laughably simple sollution.

Eshly wrote:Mirage Deck > One-way forcing deck

Check out Extreme Mental Effort by Derren Brown for a rediculously incredibly effect with a laughably simple sollution.

You might be onto something there Tom - I always used to perform 'EME' using a one-way deck. I bought a Mirage deck ages ago and it went straight in the bottom drawer and I promptly forgot about it - until your post

Now, I'll consign the forcing deck to the drawer instead.

Eshly wrote:Mirage Deck > One-way forcing deck

It looks like you're missing the point, Eshly

It was a gag trick. Not magic, just a joke. I've never seen Wiseman perform the trick in question, but he either did it as an icebreaker or to make a point

Sort of reminds me of the gag he does at the start of his luck lectures as an ice breaker (at least, the one I went to). He would fan out the cards so that only he could see them, and push one up out of the fan slightly. He'd then invite somebody to name any card "ignoring the ace of spaces and queen of hearts". When the audience member names a card, he would say "That's absolutely amazing", push the card pack into the fan (without showing it) and put the deck away

Funny bloke, is Mr Wiseman

The other thing about lay people is that they tend to focus more on the presentation. IE: why things like the ID usually can and will completely baffle them.

i dont think its methods that have become too obvious, its just that some magicians have...

Yes methods have become more obvious. As the Internet arose, more magicians began selling things, and so naturally began selling more c*** (not the best). If you don't believe me look at almost anything by Jay Sankey. He sells HUNDREDS of substandard items, relying upon newbies to buy them.

And thank you for your compliment about my Mirage Deck.

The deck itself can be used exactly as a one-way force deck, but also as a long and short deck and can still be spread and shown to be all normal.

You're fooling yourself if you think the Internet has had made things easier to see. Trust me on this, the majority of people out there have way better things to do then look up stuff on youtube all day long because one guy performed for them at a party or wedding.

Eshly wrote:Yes methods have become more obvious. As the Internet arose, more magicians began selling things, and so naturally began selling more c*** (not the best). If you don't believe me look at almost anything by Jay Sankey. He sells HUNDREDS of substandard items, relying upon newbies to buy them.

The Internet has made it easier for anybody to publish, sell, or film and upload just about anything. Which means that there's exactly the same amount of c*** (not the best) methods, just it's easier to publish them so they're more visible

On the flipside, reviews and opinions are more visible - so you know what you're paying for

I think that simplicity in methods isn't such a bad thing, it's just down to how you perform it. Some trick need to have tough slights and misdirection, but some don't. I find that If I'm doing a "mind reading" or prediction trick, simple is better, you don't need fancy slights to force, steal or peak a card, but such simple moves and methods wouldn't cut it in some of the classics.

On the other hand, I do like some methods that I know unless you know, are impossible, one off the top of my head is ramjollock by Benjamin Earl. I do love this and if I can I normally work it into a performance.

Tackeling the cheap tricks, I do think there is alot of c*** (not the best) out there, and just reading this has made me wonder how much of the earlier stuff I brought I actually use, and just at a glance, nothing, but I have a feeling everyone is like that. I've had to do alot of research to find the right info for my type of style, and I fear this research will be going on for my life.

Just a thought, but I do think Ramjollock is a real killer if anyone doesn't know about it, in a way obvious, but only to a magician, laymen will be gobsmacked. I do find I perform it differently though, I think Benjamin leaves it abit dry.

hds02115 wrote:I think that simplicity in methods isn't such a bad thing, it's just down to how you perform it. Some trick need to have tough slights and misdirection, but some don't. I find that If I'm doing a "mind reading" or prediction trick, simple is better, you don't need fancy slights to force, steal or peak a card, but such simple moves and methods wouldn't cut it in some of the classics.

On the other hand, I do like some methods that I know unless you know, are impossible, one off the top of my head is ramjollock by Benjamin Earl. I do love this and if I can I normally work it into a performance.

Tackeling the cheap tricks, I do think there is alot of c*** (not the best) out there, and just reading this has made me wonder how much of the earlier stuff I brought I actually use, and just at a glance, nothing, but I have a feeling everyone is like that. I've had to do alot of research to find the right info for my type of style, and I fear this research will be going on for my life.

Just a thought, but I do think Ramjollock is a real killer if anyone doesn't know about it, in a way obvious, but only to a magician, laymen will be gobsmacked. I do find I perform it differently though, I think Benjamin leaves it abit dry.

Actually I think Ramjollock is one of the few card tricks that fools everybody, yet has a very simple solution. I haven't met anybody who knows how its done... apart from owners of Past Midnight of course

Yeah I suppose it is quite simple once you know, and yeah I've never had anyone work it out, not that people haven't given some interesting and entertaining ideas, I do love doing this trick with my back turned all in their hands, to guys who think they're on to you. It does kill.

What's the effect? It sounds interesting.

By the way, in matters of Grand Illusion, all the best and most deceptive tricks are complex in my view. Dream Flying (Marvey), Portal, Car Apperance (Copperfield), all have complex solutions.