talkmagic.co.uk

Why do you think people here think the sun shines out of his nether regions? No one here has said he's God. I'm a big fan, but will happily admit when he does something I don't like. I think 'The System' was the worst thing I ever started watching, and actually didn't bother watching it all the way through, it did nothing for me whatsoever. However some of the things he's done I have found brilliant. He's an amazing magician/psychological illusionist, but I guess he mainly wants to try his hand at different things now.

Admittedly some of his fans are so cringe worthy and lap up everything he does, you're completely right. There are people that just constantly tweet him and talk about how they love him and try to flirt with him etc. It's really cringe worthy. They do genuinely seem to think he's God also and don't realise most of what he is doing is a 'trick'. However I don't think any of those people are here, so I don't understand why you keep saying people here would be impressed with him stood still. Come on, seriously.

I will defend some of the views here about his stuff on TV lately not being great and how yes some of it is a bit self indulgent. However, his stuff has always been like that, as part of his performance. In his really early shows he would say to people how he can memorise all the books in this library and how he precociously learnt poker as a schoolboy etc etc. He gloats all the time, but we should know that most of it is exaggerated and part of the character he is portraying as a performer/magician.

However I am a little confused as to people here complaining that his stuff isn't magic-laced enough anymore etc for them to enjoy. Sorry, but when you perform magic, are you mainly doing it to laypeople, or other magicians? The same thing works here, he's not doing shows for magicians, he's doing it for his fans and laypeople. You might not like his new direction, but his fans and casual viewers of his television work probably do. Go to his live shows for the more magic-laced stuff, but remember, even that will be aimed at laypeople. Another point to make is that he's not Dynamo, performing loads of 'sick' tricks and getting on TV at every single opportunity, nor would he want to be and I would guess nor would you lot want him to be; I certainly wouldn't. He's Derren Brown, who has a keen interest in psychology and is using his 'fame' to do stuff a bit different from his live shows and very different from his beginnings. Very early on he admits that he doesn't really like doing card magic anymore and instead only really performs some card tricks at dinner parties. His tastes have changed. That's up to him, and very understandable.

I do agree it would be awesome to see something on TV like some of his old stuff. I also agree these experiments haven't been great. I found the second very boring. But I bet it brought in the viewing figures and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't going to watch the final one, or that it changes me being a fan. My point is, some of his fans (most likely the people here) aren't sheep and won't blindly enjoy everything he does if it's c*** (not the best) so don't assume we would.

Oh and a tweet by Derren: "I hear a few stupid ppl are being insulting online to the perfectly human, lovely audience members from Gameshow. The sad irony."

Pretty pathetic to try and find audience members and then insult them personally, when yes they would have probably done the exact same thing and indeed are by using the deindividuation of the internet to harass people. Duh!

Beardy wrote:This was an awesome show. Gripping from the beginning. Fantastic.

Am I the only person on this forum who has been enjoying his shows?

Not at all, sir. I am with you completely. These threads about the show make me smile though, you guys are funny.

As someone currently studying psychology it would be easy to pass off some of this as 'A-level stuff' (not that A-level stuff is any less relevant than degree level stuff), as someone said on here, but again I return to the point made by myself and Ant; when watching it with someone who doesn't know a lot about things like this, or even how a real experiment works (and let's face it, these are anything but), it becomes a whole lot more enjoyable.

I do think that since we've seen three of four of these experiment things now, if you're not enjoying them then I genuinely don't understand why you're still watching. But, it does make for more interesting threads. I look forward to more creative, constructive, and carefully crafted criticism next week after the last one.

Agreed.

The thing is Mr Rawlings, is if anyone expresses and opinion here that they didn't like it then they get shot down in flames, surely that is un-objective fandom?
If you look at the worst perpertrators post history, 90% of it seems to about Derren (How does he do ______?, Shall I buy Absolute Magic? etc) and little else.

I do like a lot of his previous work, but his new writer is not up to the job and to me it shows.

A lot of what Derren has "proven" such a mob mentality is inherent in threads about him on this forum. One unwitting fanboy even fell right into my "mention Dynamo" trap and played along far better than many on Derren's tv show. A lot of his supporters rage against the gullibility of people that follow psychics etc and how they are 'blinkered' but I think they should really start looking at themselves.

I didn't like these shows. His new chum is not as a writer as Andy Nyman. I think he's become stale and boring. It's an opinion. Live with it.

I have no problem with you having an opinion. I can deal with it 100%. Just like you have to deal with the fact you seem to be in the minority on this subject (at least in regards to whether these shows have been entertaining or not). There seems to be more people entertained by some of these shows than not here. Maybe we should do a poll? I'm not disagreeing with you at all that this isn't his best stuff, I wouldn't pretend it is just because I like him. Therefore I don't think you should think any of us here are those mindless simpleton fanatical followers of Derren that would be entertained from him stood still for an hour. Give us some credit!

Lord Freddie wrote:I do like a lot of his previous work, but his new writer is not up to the job and to me it shows.

Can't argue with that. Furthermore, is it me, or does anyone else think the manner in which he met and began collaborating with said writer is a little unusual?

I mean, the guy did that spirit cabinet stuff and then happens to mention to Derren that he has or is doing a degree in Creative Writing, next thing you know he's on board. It wouldn't do much to help Derren's claims that he doesn't use stooges in my opinion. I mean, Derren must meet plenty of potential writers from time to time...why this geezer?

I believe I see Andy Nyman's name in the credits after The Experiments, though I know not in what capacity he is mentioned.

Would you say though, that the writing is the problem, or the ideas themselves?

Yeah I guess he would meet lots of people, but I'm sure other members of his team were people he randomly met and decided to bring on board, rather than all being assigned to him be Objective Productions or whoever. He'd definitely want to have some say in who works for him.

I have no idea if it's the writers fault. It must also be very difficult for anyone to think up new concepts.

I can't see where writing would be all that important in last night's show. OK, some of the pieces to camera would need to be scripted but most were reacting on the hoof to how things were developing, or nor developing, and the only time he spoke directly to the subject was at the end when the writing really wouldn’t make any difference. In terms of stage shows the writing would be paramount but certainly not for last night’s recorded and edited TV show.

As we seem to be getting into the same argy bargy as the previous two threads, could we all make an effort to not only say if we like or dislike the show (which is, after all the title of these threads) but how and why without needing to demolish contrary opinions? I very much doubt if those for or against will be able to totally change the opinions of those who don't agree so perhaps we could just put forward strong reasoned discussions to positively support our individual point of view? Worth a try, methinks.....

Mandrake wrote:I can't see where writing would be all that important in last night's show. OK, some of the pieces to camera would need to be scripted but most were reacting on the hoof to how things were developing, or nor developing, and the only time he spoke directly to the subject was at the end when the writing really wouldn’t make any difference.

That was my thinking too.

I asked my wife her opinion of The Experiments, her response;

I think they have been quite interesting and entertaining, why?

I explained about the huge divide of opinion on here and her response was;

It sounds to me like envy, it's the same with all the magicians that slate Criss Angel, they have to remember that at some point they stop being just a magician and become a celebrity with a fan base. It is them that make the money so they will give them what they want. I do not see what the big deal is?

I may not agree completely with what she had to say (well maybe I did to her face ) but I do find it interesting that whenever I speak to a layperson about a controversial figure within the magic community, the more they are hated or treated with disdain, seen as selling out, the more they are loved by the public. Except Blaine. Everyone hated his stunts it seems and the Eamon Holmes thing did him no favours!

If people want to dislike anything I really could not care less, however as entertainers it is important to remember who our audience is. If we want to engage in self important purist magic for the benefit of other magicians then that is fine but in my opinion it seems unfair to castigate those that choose to embrace the roads that lead to what in their mind is success. and the opportunities that exposure grants them.

To some, success is being known by millions, performing to millions, and making millions. To others it is being known by the few but being technically exceptional. Success means many things to many people and it reminds me of the people that stop liking a band when they become "mainstream".

Why?

I have a friend that said to me "I cannot believe you still listen to Muse." when I was playing their CD in my car. I asked why and he explained to me that they had "sold out" by agreeing to be on the Twilight soundtrack. This can mean only one of two things;

Either the music had somehow become terrible after being used in Twilight (for those of you that are fans you will know Blackholes and Revelations pre-dated Twilight by several years!)

or

He did not want to be part of the mainstream and resented them for no longer being part of the elitist clique liked by the few.

This post must be too long as I have forgotten the point I was trying to make but I am sure it is buried in there somewhere. I also find it interesting that the amount people perform seems to be directly proportional to how much they post on here, possibly because they begin to realise that the opinion of the magic community is not as relevant in the real world of audiences?

This is not directed at anyone in particular (do not be so vain ) but just a collection of my thoughts on this matter, on which I now have nothing further to say, other than - Cannot wait for next weeks experiment! I LOVED the System so even if it is similar I will be completely fixated throughout.

Grimshaw wrote:I believe I see Andy Nyman's name in the credits after The Experiments, though I know not in what capacity he is mentioned.

I was going to mention that, I believe it's just "With thanks to" but that credit is about third listed so you would think it reasonably significant.

And I say that as someone who has found the shows distinctly lacking in entertainment too.

DJBenz wrote:

Grimshaw wrote:I believe I see Andy Nyman's name in the credits after The Experiments, though I know not in what capacity he is mentioned.

I was going to mention that, I believe it's just "With thanks to" but that credit is about third listed so you would think it reasonably significant.

And I say that as someone who has found the shows distinctly lacking in entertainment too.

I think that there is also somebody called Andy Nayman who works for Objective Productions - I may be wrong though

It's definitely Nyman, not Nayman in the credits.

Im with Beardy on this one ...

Jeez did I just publicly agree with titchy ?

I totally and utterly loved this one. It felt like a kind of longer part of the trick or treat kinda stuff. It felt like a return to the earlier stuff in format. In esscence a live show within a tv show.

Best one of the three so far.

But then im a twisted (insert random word here) so ...

Evie x