talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all!

I'm working on my senior thesis project at Colorado State University Denver. I'm researching professional experiences from magicians and psychics to get their opinions on the practices and intents of mediumship. The topic I've chosen is as follows:

Some mediums and psychics genuinely believe that the cold reading skills they utilize are really a natural talent. They truly believe in the spiritulistic nature of their practice. Some of them were taught by family or mentors fully believing what they learned was harnessing their talents.

Some, however, are working mentalists utilizing their well-honed skills and knowingly posing as mediums and psychics.

All of the above have the potential to do good, but all of the above also have the potential to swindle.

My question is: Do the intentions of the practitioner make a difference? Do the ends justify the means?

I have done some research, and contacted local Colorado, USA magicians, mentalists, psychics, etc for feedback, but I'd love more professional input from around the globe.

I have a Word doc questionaire for practicing magicians, but I can't attach it here. So, if you'd like to participate, or give me any other information, please feel free to email me at LaurasSeniorThesis@gmail.com" target="_blank.

I appreciate anyone's assistance in advance. Thank you!! ~ Laura

Laura.
Its a bit of a hot subject. Expect many emails damming the mediums & psychics as 100% frauds.

You may also recieve emails from people like myself, who are involved in the field of seance. I can absolutly assure you that your generalisation

Some, however, are working mentalists utilizing their well-honed skills and knowingly posing as mediums and psychics.

isn't quite as simple as it may seem.
Its not a case of people Posing as a medium. that suggests fakery, and fraud. seance, works partially due to suggestion.
the phenomena witnessed, as a result of that suggestion is as real as you or i.

I know it's touchy... My boyfriend, a practicing mentalist, is staunchly of the opinion that all mediums and psychics are frauds - But I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he believes he can do much or most of the same things they can without being a "believer" so to speak. If he can do cold-reading and utilize NLP techniques with the same results, then to him, they are all frauds, or at least not presenting themselves legitimately. I, however, believe that the belief and intent make a very large difference, as does the belief of the client - Kind of like Darren Brown's expose on faith healing in the US.

Maybe it'd be better to say: "Some, however, are non-believing working mentalists utilizing their well-honed cold reading skills and to play the part of mediums and psychics - typically for entertainment purposes."

Here are some of the questions I've put together with the assistance of my boyfriend:

1. Do you believe in psychic abilities? Why or Why Not?

2. Have you ever played the part of a psychic in performance? (If “No” Skip questions 3-8)

3. What methods did you employ (i.e. Cold Reading, Hot Reading, Billet Reads, Barnum statements, etc)?

3. What methods did you employ (i.e. Cold Reading, Hot Reading, Billet Reads, Barnum statements, etc – OR – Tarot, Palmistry, Spirits, Crystal Ball, etc.)?

4. What was your motivation for this performance? (Check all that apply)
__ Monetary Gain
__ Entertainment
__ Guidance/Counseling/Advice
__ Therapy
__ Intentional Deceit (Con Game)
__ Other _______________________________________

5. How did you feel after presenting yourself as a psychic?

6. What ethical boundaries did you set for yourself in performance?

7. Did any ethical dilemmas arise surrounding your performance? If so, how did you handle these?

8. Where, or from whom, did you learn these skills?

9. What would you define as “going too far” in the realm of psychic/mentalist work? Where should one “draw the line?”

10. Do you have an opinion on performers who present themselves to have “real” psychic powers? If so, explain.

11. Which statement best defines your beliefs:
__ All psychics are frauds
__ Some psychics believe in what they do, but scam artists definitely exist
__ I believe that there are individuals that are truly psychic
__ I don’t know what to believe
__ Other __________________________________________

12. Does it matter if the practitioner of these arts (i.e. the psychic/medium/performer) believes in what they are doing?

13. Does it matter if the practitioner has altruistic motives for employing his skills or is motivated by greed or some other motivation?

Dale - Do you have a better forum you might suggest?

People who genuinely think they're psychic, but cannot prove it fairly, could be viewed as not deceitful, but misguided.

People who knowingly employ tricks to achieve the illusion of psychic ability could be viewed as not misguided, but deceitful.

The latter group are usually far more convincing, and so they have a greater influence on people who may choose to believe in such things. The believers in psychic ability see these tricks as firmer 'evidence' of psychic ability than the readings often attempted by the misguided "psychics".

I don't think you can deal in absolutes and say one is wrong and one is right. Similarly, the ethics involved is fairly subjective; some of the con artists merely see their work as harmless illusions, choosing to believe that the people who then subscribe to artificial beliefs are in some way naive or stupid - they don't see themselves as responsible for converting people if that happens. Similarly, some of them think it's best for their illusions if genuine psychic ability is believed in, so they can get away with more...but again, probably don't have ethical issues with that, claiming once again that people have the opportunity not to believe.

My personal solution would be to explain to the people that believe in psychic ability that there is no known scientific evidence yet...and explain the importance of evidence.

If you're interested, this is interesting reading: http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/10/testing-psychics/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

There's my $0.50.

As for suggestion...it depends how it's framed. If it's claimed by the medium that the oujia board is actual communication with spirits, but in actuality the medium knows about suggestion and believes that it really works through suggestion, then that is dishonest and endorses the belief of contacting the dead. If on the other hand it's claimed to be suggestion, then, well, no real dishonesty going on there at all - in fact, that's quite fair. For the medium that believes the oujia board is genuinely psychic, then fair enough - they might be right (as you can't really turn round and COMPLETELY disclaim the possibility) but it's highly, highly unlikely. So they're very probably misguided, and it's very probably suggestion, in which case we go back to the whole idea of their beliefs being challenged. Of course, these people will be usually reluctant to challenge their beliefs...or at least do it in a very biased way. Not always, but usually.

I agree with the comments left by the others; the matter might appear clear-cut, but there are many factors that play a part (as well as audience perception; many of the performers on here will have stories of how they frame their work in a specific way but are still perceived as the 'genuine article').

From an academic perspective, it feels like you are taking on an awful lot...! What is the final word count for the thesis, and have you already discussed the work and outline with your advisor? (sorry, I lecture at a university, so it's the teacher kicking in... )

cryshayn wrote:Dale - Do you have a better forum you might suggest?

May I suggest you post your questionairre on a forum for psychics, mediums, and those involved in the esoteric world? Posting here and on magic cafe seems to smack of you looking for the answers you want. Not very scientific.

The world of mentalism, mediumship, and psychic ability is a murky one with many grey areas. I've been involved in it professionally for around 10 years now and I'm still learning new things every day. A simple questionnaire with loaded questions really isn't going to cut the mustard.

You will find that most mentalists (including myself) will steer well clear of mediumship. But that's about as far as it goes. From that point onwards every mentalist is an individual with his own belief systems, his own techniques, and his own message.

Good luck with your work, but you need to step out of your comfort zone and get a few replies to your questionnaire that may not sit well with your already settled upon hypothesis.

Thank you so much, Paul! I'll be emailing you later today.

The very last persons you need to speak to about this stuff is magicians and especially mentalists. They know absolutely nothing about it and are simply not qualified to comment.

I rather think that many Magicians/Mentalists will know a good deal about the chicanery and methods used in the fake kind of mediumships and so on, possibly not a lot about the genuine sort - if there is any.

There is a big difference between psychics and mediums. The magicians know nothing whatsoever about the way psychics works despite all the daft books on the subject written by people who have never done a psychic reading in their lives. With regard to mediums, the magicians don't know that much about it either except that they seem to be aware that a few celebrity TV mediums use this "cold reading" nonsense. I think all the TV mediums are extremely bent but most of the mediums I know are sincere people who don't use cold reading of any sort and in fact have no idea what it is. My own personal belief is that they are self deluded and not in touch with anybody in the spirit world but who knows anything for sure? The point of the matter is they are self deluded rather than fraudulent. Or perhaps they are genuine for all I know although I highly doubt it.

I do know of fraudulent psychics but NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM uses cold reading techniques. They aren't bright enough for that kind of thing. They are indeed scam artists and what I would call the gypsy psychics although some of them aren't gypsy at all but merely pretend they are. They "remove curses" and "reunite lost lovers" and that sort of thing and they would sell their own children if business was bad. However, crooked as they are they DON'T use cold reading and would have no idea what it is.

Most psychics, however, are quite sincere and genuine in their beliefs and many of them are of help to people. Some aren't and can actually do a bit of harm but that is the nature of the business. The client has to be careful who they choose to give their money to.

The point I am trying to make is that magicians know very little about what goes on in the real world of psychics. They don't know how the genuine ones work and they don't know how the crooked ones work. So as I have just stated they are not qualified to waffle about it.

mark lewis wrote: They don't know how the genuine ones work and they don't know how the crooked ones work. So as I have just stated they are not qualified to waffle about it.

Apart from me, of course. Having been a psychic for many years before I even heard the phrase "mentalist".

And me too of course. But naturally I am far too modest to say so.

cryshayn wrote:Some mediums and psychics genuinely believe that the cold reading skills they utilize are really a natural talent. They truly believe in the spiritulistic nature of their practice. Some of them were taught by family or mentors fully believing what they learned was harnessing their talents.

You have a problem here in that you're PRESUMING that all 'genuine' psychics (by that I mean, those who are not knowingly using fraudulent methods) are inadvertantly using cold-reading etc. Where do you get that data from for that initial presumption? Naturally, it's wrong. Not all 'genuine' psychics are using cold-reading etc.

cryshayn wrote:I know it's touchy... My boyfriend, a practicing mentalist, is staunchly of the opinion that all mediums and psychics are frauds

I get the feeling you're basing a thesis on something you're boyfriend is telling you. That it's all cold-reading etc. Is this really a good platform from which to start your thesis?
As others have mentioned, I suspect you're asking in magic forums so that you get data that supports your initial (incorrect) presumptions.

We must be gentle with Cryshayn even if we disagree with her. I was quite perturbed at the rudeness she received when she posted the above on the magic cafe.