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Cyril has excellent sleight of hand. From what I remember, Criss Angel does too.. the only thing is he very rarely uses it anymore. He's too busy doing rubbish, over-the-top illusions which arent very realistic.

Also about my comment, I'm not saying Criss Angel is just in it for the money.. I just dont see why he feels the need to point out all these free cars and gifts he's getting every other episode. I think it makes him look greedy myself. I saw the episode with the kid and I'm not trying to say Criss Angel doesnt do nice things. Its just that up until that ep, he hadnt shown any kind of generosity in helping others. obviously he's done it now and I respect him from that. He hadnt when I made that post though.

Maybe Criss Angel is just stealing the generosity thing from Cyril aswell? I think Criss Angel has done 4 or 5 tricks which have been near exact copies of the way Cyril has performed them.. maybe he saw Cyril do something nice and thought he'd steal that too?

note: that last comment was a joke (well.. the generosity part was). Dont go attacking me over it

I wasn't attacking you - just pointing out something that didn't sit well with me. This isn't the only act of generosity he's made - just the only one that has hit the television series. As for pointing things out - you need to look deeper. He's not mentioning the viper JUST because he loves it. He's mentioning it because Dodge is a sponsor for the show. Sometimes you just have to shill for the guy who writes the checks, my friend.

As for over the top rubbish - I think there are a few effects that I didn't like (or just plain hated), but to say he rarely uses sleight of hand skills is completely untrue. Every episode of Mindfreak I have watched in the last few months has had many excellent examples of close-up/sleight of hand work.

I think that the rise in popularity for all performers have lead to the use of similar ideas in their performances. To be completely honest - neither of the two created any of the effects, so to say either one is stealing from the other is a pointless debate. It's like me accusing you of stealing from Mullica because you performed Card to Wallet.

I have a hard time with the "unrealistic effects" argument. Personally, I don't like effects that are TOO out of the ordinary, but that's me. To some degree - many effects are unrealistic. But they are put in there because, at some level, they work. The reactions warrant the effect. I've heard the unrealistic argument pop up in regards to Angel's performance of Gut Buster.

I've even heard that specific effect used to further prove that David Blaine is better than Criss Angel (for those of you who aren't aware - Blaine was supposed to perform Gut Buster on his Drowned Alive special, but it was cut for time).

Here's the beauty of it all. In that particular situation, if the roles were reversed, and Blaine's Gut Buster WAS aired (which would have been before Angel's Mindfreak performance), I would imagine those same Blaine fans would say it was an awesome effect that was so incredible and impossible, that it proves Blaine is better than Angel. Especially since Angel "stole" the effect.

My point? That all reactions are subjective. One man's c*** (not the best) is another man's reputation maker.

There are particular effects that I don't care for (Angel's pulling a lady in half, Cyril's Head off shoulders, Blaine's Torn and Restored Teeth) - but there IS an audience for these, and many other effects. We may not like watching it, but those people freaking out when the half lady crawled away and Cyril's head fell off were impressed. And that's who they're doing it for.

The most over-the-top effect which i thought was awfully unrealistic was levitating from one building to another. I cant see how anyone could believe that. And I know Cyril didnt invent any of those tricks, I was just saying Criss "stole" them because Cyril done them not too long ago and got great reactions and now Criss is doing them.

I'm not trying to say Blaine is better than Angel.. but Angels performance of Gutbuster was a pretty poor. Maybe people have seen Blaines and his was a bit more believable? Who knows.. I just think Angel needs a good kick up the backside. Season 2 has been awful compared to season 1.

i still prefer martin nash to the lot of angel, cyril, and blain. they are capatilists.

Ah yes He's a very good magcian in japan and hes in a group also but I forgot what it was called

keyblademaster wrote:Ah yes He's a very good magcian in japan and hes in a group also but I forgot what it was called

Cyril? He's in the group Magic X Live

Not wanting to get involved in any pro/anti Cyril rantings, but if anyone is interested he is on the cover of this months MAGIC magazine, and there is a fairly comprehensive artical in it. Thought you might like to know.
AL

Is Criss Angel copying Cyril? I've seen them both do the same cigarette and lemon, egg and orange routine and they were both virtually identical

Yeah I think Criss is running out of ideas so he's taking ideas from other magicians and changing them slightly.

The bird > egg > lemon > orange routine was handled differently although the cigarette vanish was very similar to Cyril's. Cyril also did his infamous burger trick and Criss took the idea and modified it. Criss did it with a painting but also took the "evidence" with him.. Cyril is better, the only thing he took was the burger

I don't know if Criss Angel is the first magician to have his own series but he must be under a lot of pressure to come up with new material each week because its a series of shows not a one off special. I personally would like to see more of Criss Angel's stage illusions in his mindfreak series but it probably won't happen because he's more of a street magician now.

I havent seen his Mindfreak special DVD (not series) or his "Made In Japan" DVD but I saw the trailers and they looked AWESOME. Series 1 of Mindfreak was pretty awesome from what I remember but season 2 is just average. A few decent effects/tricks but nothing spectacular. He should go "back to his roots" and do some older tricks.

Edit: When I say older tricks, I dont mean do the same tricks he's done. Take an older trick and re-do it differently, add a different outcome to it or something. His older stuff is much better than the new stuff

I saw his supernatural special when it aired on sky one in December 2003 and that was the first I saw of him and not seen anything more of him since before seeing series one of mindfreak. I think most of the tricks he did in the series he had done previously on one of his specials - swallowing the coin and pulling it out of his wrist, setting himself on fire, body suspension, oasis (based on submerged).

I haven't seen the whole of series two yet but from what tricks I have seen from clips on you tube the good tricks from series two are walking on water, pulling a woman in half, him being sawn in half and him performing gutbuster. I thought the levitating between two buildings was too silly to be believable.

I agree with your suggestion that he should perform the same tricks again but redo them differently but theres not much point to that if he's running out of ideas. Maybe he should just do a special every couple of years after series two of mindfreak ends but hasn't he been picked up for another series?

BizKiTRoAcH wrote:Yeah I think Criss is running out of ideas so he's taking ideas from other magicians and changing them slightly.

Yes, him and every magician that performs an ambitious card routine. We're all copycats!

I hardly think he's running out of ideas. I think this current season has had some of his best work. I am enjoying that he's pulling away from his "mystic-esque" persona, and becoming more casual and laid back.

I do agree with you Misanthropy, He should leave the series and concentrate on doing 1 special per year or something. Thats probably why I prefer Cyril. He does 1 or 2 specials per year so he has time to concentrate on powerful effects and tricks and you arent seeing him ALL the time. I definately think Criss should drop the TV show and do 1 or 2 specials every now and then.

While I do prefer his more laid back/casual approach now, I have to disagree.. I think this season has definately had some of his worst stuff. I'm going to rewatch season 1. When I started season 2, I was learning magic so I knew how a lot of the tricks were done. I didnt know ANYTHING in season 1 so maybe if I watch it from an "experienced" (couldnt think of the right word) point of view, it might be better or worse. From what I remember though.. it was definately better.

Personally im a fan of David Blaine
David was the first street magician i ever saw and pretty much what got me going in magic but what ive seen of criss ange, some of his stuff is too "over the top" for me to believe, but he does do some good close up
but ive only seen his Series i havent seen any of his specials or anything
and i havent seen any Cyril videos ill have to look him up but as for Criss and David, i choose David Blaine