talkmagic.co.uk

Pardon for not using the normal Template... didn't think to cut & paste...
Regardless... NOTHING by Max Maven/ L&L Publishing -- $99.00

http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2360

Difficulty Level? Depends 100% on the size of your balls. Many will want to run away from it because certain routines are very high risk & without a saftey net e.g. you will come to know failure here and there, which is contrary to much of Max's earlier stuff. But it is very hard hitting and solid Mentalism NOT Mental Magic!

The Spiel:
Max Maven traveld from Hollywood to Lake Tahoe. He brought NOTHING but a nice suit. On the way from the airport to the studio, he stopped at a supermarket for less than ten minutes and spent less than ten dollars. Once in his room, he spent less than half an hour prepareing, and proceeded to go on stage and do a 50-minute perforance of mentalism.

NO Pre-show Work
NO Stooges
NO Clipboards
NO Nail Writers
NO Playing Cards
NO ESP Cards
NO Billets
NO Wallets
NO Gaffs
NO Gimmicks
NO Special Materials
NO Muscl Reading
NO Hypnotism
NO Threads
NO Mirrors
NO Electronics
NO Rough & Smooth
NO Gilbreath Principle
NO Filler
...in fact... NOTHING but solid mentalism and great entertainment.

Let's be clear... This is not a cluster of "substitute" stuff to make up for having lost your props. It is a full-lenght show of top-notch real world material, much of it revealed for the very first time. The complete work, including variations and options, plus discussions of performance structure, scripting seques, audienc emanagement, blocking, timing -- evertyhing thoroughly explained with an unprecedented degree of detail.

MY PERSONAL OPINIONS: I've known Max for over 25 years and this is the first time I found material of his that "fit" what I felt to be solid, clean Mentalism. Bear in mind, I love watching Max work but I am wise enough to know that what he does is not the kind of material I'd work with in a larger sense of things... that is, until I read about NOTHING and then sat down this afternoon and watched disc 1 of the two disc set. The show sequences are fun and it showed a side of Max I'd not seen before... (a lot changes when you've not seen someone work in nearly 20 years...) More important that all of this though was the sit down, very casual and matter of fact conversation he has with Michael Weber. Frankly, this conversation alone is probably the single greatest value in the entired collection; an honest and very candid perspective on being a genuine Psychic Entertainer and how to deal with certain issues of controvesy (disclaimers) as well as how to exploit all the theory and psychology we read about as we create our own version of this or any other program. Max's biggest point being not to take this show and go out and do "it" but to take these principles, concepts and modes of approach and create the kind of program that fits you, your theme, concept, and market.

I'm not kidding when I say that you will need balls of brass when it comes to some of the material. In short, I do not consider the material practical to someone that's inexperienced in Mentalism and made a steady study of the field for at least are year or more; you will need to understand some of the nuances found in the works of Banachek, Knepper, etc. when working with this approach and being able to create focus within your routine so that it can unfold is the real lesson here, using you mind vs. gadgets and gimmicks.

I rarely get this excited about a video product but what Max has delivered in this collection is far from where most remember him being in his style and typical mode of presentation. He's raw and he's awesome! Most important he, the L&L Team and Mr. Weber have delivered something to our industry that's past due and destined, at least in my opinion, to be amongst the newer "Must Have on Your Shelf at All Times" resources to the art... a "Bible" of sorts.

If you are serious about mentalism GET THIS COLLECTION!

Finally a more comprehensive review of this product. The last one was not particualrly helpful from someone whinging about the DVD set.

This sounds great!

It has always been my intention to publish some original work which deals with the NOTHINGNESS OF MENTALISM.

Techniques such as Cold Reading, Hellstromism, Psychological Forces exc so the that the Mentalist and or Magician could have at his or her disposal an arsenal of effects that were truly IMPROMPTU.

The problem as has already been discussed is the FALURE FACTOR.

As Magicians we hate to fail and in fact judge ourselves Rotten or Lousy if we do? However in mentalism ones imperfections help to bolster one believability. I mean if I was right all the time I could play the lotto and retire altogether from my winnings.

Watch Magicians like Uri Geller when they mess up and how they handle it and you will get the idea of what I’m talking about.

In any case I think a good follow up to prop less magic or mentalism would be NESSESARY OUTS. A book dealing with things like Nail Writers, Pocket Writing, Pocket Indexes exc.

In that way with just the barest of essentials one could recover from most situations.

Thanks for reading.

Well, first off NOTHING does not cover the areas you listed. In fact, Max went out of his way to NOT include that kind of stuff in this particular release. Too, Max is quite clear in this tape that he deliberately removed all the "out's" that would normally be there such as those you've named, in that he addressed the issue of "always having an out" over two decades back... (sorry).

In saying all this, I want to bring out that you hit the proverbial nail on the head when it comes to how MAGICIANS look at effects vs. the Mentalist; which is something that has stuck in my crawl since day one... having to have a positive end conclusion in things when, in the "real world" there's not a psychic that ever lived who was ever 100% on the mark e.g. to have things happen perfectly all the time is to bring suspicion onto yourself as a fraud as well as weaken what you do when it comes to public perception; Near Hits and the ocassional miss are far more empowering than being 100% all the time when it comes to the things we do.

This is one side of the psychological paradigm that seperates these two kindred art forms and it is one of the hardest lessons for the typical magic buff to digest for two reasons; it goes against habit and it runs contrary to postive ego feeding i.e. that feeling we all get when effects come about in that positive way and we get the applause... that pat on the back for being good and talented boys & girls...

HERE'S A SECRET... if you like those pats on the back, learn how to not be afraid of the miss and how to work with it. The pats get more plentiful and the kudos...well, let's just say that I know of this poor kid from Israrel that became a millionaire because of it...

I have to disagree with your there, Mr Browning. Hold on... I'll get a protective helmet first.

Right, now I don't dispute that to fail sometimes increases the credibility of a 'pure mentalism' (if you see what I mean) performance. But I really, really am not sure that failure should be embraced as wholly wonderful - almost necessary. And the reasons for this have nothing to do with magicians' egos.

For one, if the mentalist has given an engaging performance, I can't imagine many of the audience walking out dismissively muttering, 'Tff. How tediously transparent - he didn't fail once.'

For two, a performance (and each part of a performance - each effect - is a performance within the performance) has a structure, yes? A narrative, which leads to a resolution. If the resolution doesn't happen, that's lost. It's rather like the hero killing the villain (or dying in a blaze of glory) at the climax of Act 3. It's no good having the hero unable to make the showdown due to appendicitis, and so we end on the villain tapping his foot and repeatedly checking his watch - credits roll - and arguing that that's the kind of thing that happens in real life. It's not real life. If people wanted to pay to watch real life they'd buy tickets to sit at the bus station. They're sitting in a theatre because they want the structure and satisfaction of a carefully constructed piece of (possibly pseudo realistic) entertainment. Also, I've seen magicians fail, and (though this is lessened if the magician is amusing and deals with it well) the overwhelming feeling in the audience is horrible, horrible embarrassment.

So, you have a piece that lasts - say - five minutes, building skilfully to a carefully-thought-out peak, and... splat. It flops. Let's ignore how the performer feels: it's unsatisfying (worse, uncomfortable) for the audience. As an analogy, I don't think comedy improv troupes, if they do a piece that falls apart because everyone just dries, slap their thighs and think, 'Hurrah! That failure will prove to everyone that this really is improv and do us the world of good in some overall sense.' They think, 'I feel sick.'

Surely, then, the notion of the benefit of failure in mentalism is grossly flawed. Genuine failures carry a downside that is pretty serious. (Unless you weren't really bothered about the effect/presentation anyway - and if you weren't, they why did you do it?) There are some 'risks' you can take that will be seen as miracles if they come off, but not be seen as failures if they don't (because they won't be seen at all) - that's not 'gladly accepting failures' at all. Moreover - and this is key - you can easily gain Failure Cred without having effects die on the stage. Four predictions: you get the second one (deliberately) wrong. You can build the failure into the dynamic of the effect, I'd guess - actually make it a plus, because you've planned and placed it.

And, it hardly needs saying, one can't comfortably call on the impact of the effect as justification for the risk of failure. Any, 'Yes, it's risky, but if it does come off...' is also the thinking of magicians who are just dying to perform something that they know they haven't really got down yet.

Basically, I think - if you follow it through logically - there's no justification for the Failures Are Fine position. Failures are failures.

I'm going to wall myself in the cellar now.

No explosions or shot gun rounds Sexton...

I know what you're saying (heard it far too many times) and NO, I do not mean that one must "schedule" a failure ... they happen plenty on their own and that's how it should be... the only "failure" I ever staged in my act (outside of a gag bit like the McComical Prediction) was when I used to do the Lesley Bending Wine Glass and it would explode every now and again... as if my "powers" got out of control or some such.

Miscalls on the other hand I will do for the same reasons Max gives in his video as well as the fact that I've worked and studied the shut eye world for so long I know for fact that (and one of the biggest complaints given by their detractors) is that they aren't 100% on the mark each and every time... well, they can't be!

Imagine seeing a movie that you've never seen before... the entire 2 hours or whatever its length, in under 3 seconds and then having to recollect every single thing in that film to the precise detail... this is both, what real world psychics experience as well as what their detractors expect of them. The fact of the matter is, there's no one I know of on this planet with that kind of perfect recall that's natural vs. the result of a man made contraption e.g. If, as per Max's bit in this demonstration, the real target image is a horse on a marri-go-round, then saying that you see a horse but it's not normal... it's a "Toy Horse" is an acceptable revelation that actually becomes accepted by the audience as being more believable.

Another example of how this works can be found in Banachek's PS2 on page 104, Gregg Arce's "Six Degrees of Seperation with a Nail Writer"... it is one of the most beautiful ideas I've seen in years and it involves the psychology found through the hit or close call situations.

The other thing I believe many who are "new" to mentalism are guilty of when it comes to this sort of thing, is NOT LISTENING TO THEIR PATRONS. That is, we don't have our spies out there listening to the scuttlebutt after the show. In my experience in shows that run "too perfect" you will see a higher number of laymen assuming that it was all tricks yet, even with Banachek who is very heavy on discliamers, when he's had a couple of misses or close calls, his believability factor by the audience will increase.... that's something that comes straight from the horses mouth, by the way.

Magicians do tricks that work nearly every time (we all have those rough nights). Mentalists, if they are NOT doing the Mr. Debunko type program, will allow and not fear the miss and will at times exploit the opportunity for close calls... even when doing a code act


See, no explosions!

Two points I need to make first:
1) I'm not arguing with you here, I'm merely discussing the difference of perspective, because I find it interesting.
2) This, topic-offingly, isn't aimed at MM's Nothing: I've heard wildly varying reports about the DVD, but I haven't seen it myself so have no personal opinion whatsoever.

Rightio. We agree that a miss or two can sell a pure mentalism act. Our difference appears to be that I feel that when and where those misses occur should be up to the performer - for reasons of effective theatre - whereas you take a more, free-wheeling, take-it-as-it-comes, thinking-on-one's-feet-loving approach. Essentially, I'm an anal control freak and you're some kind of hippy anarchist. We're both comfortable with our position and are unlikely to change, so let's put that aside.

A practical question. How (bearing point 2, above, in mind) can one 'mark' mentalism which is being offered for sale, in a way that will be generally accepted as meaningful, if whether or not the effects will work isn't seen as absolutely central? Surely there's no market for a DVD billing itself 'Increase your credibility with these effects - each one guaranteed to have a failure rate of at least 75%'? Clever thinking is admirable, of course, but it isn't what people pay for: they pay for something they can perform. There are lots of things in magic where the consensus is, 'Original thinking and an interesting idea. But, as it doesn't actually work, you shouldn't have charged us money for it.' Young master Jermay seems to have attracted a fair amount of, 'Great. Except that won't work,' criticism regarding his published stuff, but - as far as I'm aware (and, I happily admit, you're far better placed to comment here) - his response hasn't been, 'Pshaw! Embrace the opportunities failure provides,' but rather, 'Actually, it does work if you try it rather than just dismissing it from your armchair, Bignose.'

Surely, though mentalists might discuss the benefits/role of failure as a general part of their art, for commercially-sold products the big bottom line is overwhelmingly 'does it work (massively more often than not)'?

By your lead... check the new thread...

DrTodd wrote:Finally a more comprehensive review of this product. The last one was not particualrly helpful from someone whinging about the DVD set.

This sounds great!

You could have read my one:

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic14625.php

When I get time, I'm going to add some thoughts to the thread on misses.

Thanks Part timer! Lovely review as well. So tempting....

I have just ordered this today as I've wanted it for a long time. It seems my patience has payed off too, because instead of having to pay about £70 for the DVD, I managed to find an absolute bargain!

Magicbox.com (I love that site) are selling it amongst their DVD sale items for a mere £29.99. What a steal!

If anyone was thinking about buying this, but didn't because of the price tag (let's face it £70 is a bit of a rip-off), buy it from magicbox instead. You'll save a fortune....well, not really a "fortune" - only about £40, but thats still better than a kick in the proverbials.

Have a good weekend all. Tyler.

and interestingly enough, they are also selling for under 8 pounds!!! a dvd from the man who's work influenced Max in producing nothing.

K.F.

I too took advantage of the Magic Box offer. Not watched all of the explanations and the conversation yet, but I will say that Maven in no way plays to an easy crowd. A psychological force doesn't come off right. A girl charged with doing some arithmetic can't manage it. A trick with a watch goes awry because the borrowed watch is too complicated to actually read. There's even a moment when a volunteer fails to think of a device that might generate a random number between one and six. I did get to the end of the performance and wonder if he'd performed on the hottest day of the year.

But that's just the kind of performance you really want to see! It allows Maven to show off his audience handling abilities and demonstrate the need for the various tweaks he has added to his effects over the years.

Also the "panel of friends" approach to the explanations means that you effectively get, or at least are invited into forming, a dialogue with Maven. It's less about him instructing you, and more about him explaining his thinking behind the effect, and why he presents it the way he does. This frees the viewer up a little to adapt the effects to their own style.

Mr_Grue wrote:...There's even a moment when a volunteer fails to think of a device that might generate a random number between one and six...

Honestly, you couldn't make it up. Must have been a full moon. Or something.

Replicant wrote:

Mr_Grue wrote:...There's even a moment when a volunteer fails to think of a device that might generate a random number between one and six...

Honestly, you couldn't make it up. Must have been a full moon. Or something.

There's a sort of card routine I do where the spec just has to name the first King that comes to mind - Hearts, Spades, Clubs or Diamonds. One of the other Mods on TM did this a while back, asked the spec to 'Name that King' and she said, 'Henry the eighth'