talkmagic.co.uk

I have both DVDs. Can you let me know which episode it's on?

Soren Riis wrote:

Mahoney wrote:I know of the trick he is refering to and it is indeed baffling. It was Jonathan Ross and his wife Jane participating in the trick. Jane thinks of the 7 of hearts first off, and they each have a deck of cards spread on the table in new deck order, so they could see that all the cards were present. Next Jonathan and Jane took their decks and shuffled them under the table while Derren talked about coincidences. He instructed them both to take a card out of the deck under the table without them looking at it and turn it over in the deck (so they didn't even know themselves which card they were turning over). When the decks were brought back to the surface of the table and spread out they both had the 7 of hearts turned over.

OK I watched the last part of this (missed the beginning). I think a major point to understand in this type of effect is that there exists such things as decks with 51 DF cards plus one single 7 of hearts. The "only" non-trivial problem (besides showmanship) is to force Jane to pick the 7 of hearts. Here I suppose what was shown on TV might differer slightly from exactly what happened in the TV studio. Moderators please delete if you consider my "explanation" exposure. I am not quite sure it is (in the sense that a lay person would understand what I am talking about), but please delete (or move to secret section) if this is too much.

I can see what you mean by DFers but it is not in this case. You see the front and back of at least the 7 of hearts. And if the rest were DFs then you would still have the problem of making them select the right one card under the table, so the use of DFers would be pointless.

Marvell, I'll have a look later.

I saw the trick and I was amazed by it but I stopped speculating on how it was done shortly after I saw it. As with all the best magic, I don't know how it's done and I'm ok with that. Also I'm not sure that speculating on methods here is the best idea.

Yes, I love wondering how it's done but to tell you the truth this would fit in perfectly as the restaurant I'm likely to be performing at bosts many young couples...I was just but if nothing else then I could always stick to other couple effects...

Mahoney wrote:
I can see what you mean by DFers but it is not in this case. You see the front and back of at least the 7 of hearts. And if the rest were DFs then you would still have the problem of making them select the right one card under the table, so the use of DBers would be pointless.

The only problem with this method would be to get them to bring the deck from under the table the right way up for the ribbon spread or there would be no face down card, other than that its possibly the answer and therefore should be hidden

Mahoney wrote:
I can see what you mean by DFers but it is not in this case. You see the front and back of at least the 7 of hearts. And if the rest were DFs then you would still have the problem of making them select the right one card under the table, so the use of DBers would be pointless.

Marvell, I'll have a look later.

I saw the trick and I was amazed by it but I stopped speculating on how it was done shortly after I saw it. As with all the best magic, I don't know how it's done and I'm ok with that. Also I'm not sure that speculating on methods here is the best idea.

Of course you see the front of the 7 of hearts since this is an ordinary card. I do not understand why you think they have to choose the right card under the table. In 51 out of 52 cases they reverse a DF card thats makes no difference (time missdirection covers the small discrepancy of he orientation of the deck). Only when the 7th oh heart is reversed is there potentially a problem, but an easy out just require the the magician turn over the deck (maybe saying: "Did you reverse a card? Somehow you must have given it a full rotation - give it another try").
As I say I never watched the beginning of Derrens effect, but this does not change my view. Anyway this is not a site for exposure so I can obviously you say anything more.

Interesting, this shows why magicians do not have to be overly concerned about revalations!! Even when the method is given, people often fail to understand that this is endeed how its done!!

Also I do not understand why you say DB + one 7 hearts would not work?
It would be a very pure way of doing it since the spectator might think its a one-way deck (using a one-way deck could also be used, but again this would be an extremely poor method).

Might want to get your thinking caps on again because I can confirm that the fronts and backs of every card are seen in both decks However the D/F method is probably the most practical one for everyday performances.

It's probably not a published handling - certainly no-one has offered a definitive source to learn this. I do recall seeing a post a while back now which hit upon the most likely explanation...can't for the life of me recall where abouts it was now, although it may be somewhere in the Restricted Area if you have access to that.

I was thinking the same thing, the decks are completely examined and only one card is chosen, Derren's version doesn't seem to use any DF and certainly not DB's although that would be an easy way to do it...

Soren Riis wrote:

Mahoney wrote:
I can see what you mean by DFers but it is not in this case. You see the front and back of at least the 7 of hearts. And if the rest were DFs then you would still have the problem of making them select the right one card under the table, so the use of DFers would be pointless.

Marvell, I'll have a look later.

I saw the trick and I was amazed by it but I stopped speculating on how it was done shortly after I saw it. As with all the best magic, I don't know how it's done and I'm ok with that. Also I'm not sure that speculating on methods here is the best idea.

Of course you see the front of the 7 of hearts since this is an ordinary card. I do not understand why you think they have to choose the right card under the table. In 51 out of 52 cases they reverse a DF card thats makes no difference (time missdirection covers the small discrepancy of he orientation of the deck). Only when the 7th oh heart is reversed is there potentially a problem, but an easy out just require the the magician turn over the deck (maybe saying: "Did you reverse a card? Somehow you must have given it a full rotation - give it another try").
As I say I never watched the beginning of Derrens effect, but this does not change my view. Anyway this is not a site for exposure so I can obviously you say anything more.

Interesting, this shows why magicians do not have to be overly concerned about revalations!! Even when the method is given, people often fail to understand that this is endeed how its done!!

Also I do not understand why you say DB + one 7 hearts would not work?
It would be a very pure way of doing it since the spectator might think its a one-way deck (using a one-way deck could also be used, but again this would be an extremely poor method).

Whoa calm down! I wasn't attacking you. I am talking about this particular trick which I have seen performed on the show and it's the one in discussion now. If you have found a way to create a similar effect then well done, but it is not this trick.

In terms of your idea, I understand now what you were meaning about the 7 of hearts, I slightly misunderstood so sorry. The 'DB' bit was a typo should have been 'DF', but yeah I get your point now. No need to get so defensive I wasn't having a go at you

OK, for those who are interested, it's on Tick of the Mind Series 2 Episode 2.

The two speks sit at the table where there are two decks ribbon spread face up in new deck order.

The first spek is helped to choose a card, in this case, the seven of hearts. This card is confirmed as being in both decks.

The speks gather the cards, backs (plural) shown, and shuffle them under the table.

During a series of stories, the spek's are instructed to invert one card in the deck.

Upon finishing the stories the cards are ribbon spread face up by the speks to find that one card is face down in each pack, the seven of hearts.

Please do not discuss the method for this trick, I don't want to know it.

Lol I would like to know the method if it was in a particular source, not asking for exposure but it doesn't seem that anyone knows how to logically do it the exact same way Derren does...

It is very curious - Even when the method is given people do not believe it!!
Some do not want to know, and some fail to recognise the method and invent events that never took place! This is ofcourse what we all experience lay-people do all the time! However, here at TM people are more familiar with magic yet many here do not get it even when million hints are given.

This just shows what a great magician Derren is.

Yes but people continiously state that it is DF'ers yet the back and fronts are shown, watch the video again and you will recognize this...

Soren Riis wrote:It is very curious - Even when the method is given people do not believe it!!
Some do not want to know, and some fail to recognise the method and invent events that never took place! This is ofcourse what we all experience lay-people do all the time! However, here at TM people are more familiar with magic yet many here do not get it even when million hints are given.

This just shows what a great magician Derren is.

Did you not read my post at all? Which events didn't happen? It is very curious that you can take this stand having not watched the trick in its entirety.

Marvell wrote:

Soren Riis wrote:It is very curious - Even when the method is given people do not believe it!!
Some do not want to know, and some fail to recognise the method and invent events that never took place! This is ofcourse what we all experience lay-people do all the time! However, here at TM people are more familiar with magic yet many here do not get it even when million hints are given.

This just shows what a great magician Derren is.

Did you not read my post at all? Which events didn't happen? It is very curious that you can take this stand having not watched the trick in its entirety.

OK it looks like I judged this to fast. Sorry! Just out of curiosity did the spectators or did derren display the backs of the cards? Anyway there is an entirely different method where backs and fronts can be shown and that is consistent with the VERY long time delay I vaguely recall from what I watched (as I said I just watch the last part of the effect, however a magic friend of mine watched the full effect and agreed with the DF explanation. He obviously must have missed that the back of the cards where shown).

Anyway, let us not try to steal Derrens method that appears more clever than I originally thought.

Soren Riis wrote:

Marvell wrote:Did you not read my post at all?

Just out of curiosity did the spectators or did derren display the backs of the cards?

Clearly, you've not read my post at all.