talkmagic.co.uk

I've been doing magic for about half a year now, and I have learnt from Crash Course 1 (Ellusionist) and Stigmata (Ellusionist again), along with a couple of things my friend taught me. Now I've noticed a lot of people talking negatively about Ellusionist and just wondered why, as I haven't been into magic for long I was just curious. Also could people recommend books or DVD's for a begginer such as myself, I am currently doing card magic and would like to learn more card manipulation and controls at the moment, so that I can vary them from trick to trick so people don't start to realise 'Ah he did that there and that happened so he's doing it here again and this is gonna happen again' if you understand. Also I live in Britain so anything that could be obtained over here would be preferable, but I'm quite happy to pay for shipping fees.[/i]

Royal Road To Card Magic is the bible for card magic. Every magician should own one IMHO.

I don't mind Ellusionist too much. Some of there products have been very usefull for me but they are massively overpriced. They are aimed at a 'Street Magic' generation and a lot of members on this forum are working magicians who get paid to perform on stage, restaurants, walk around and other places and generally do not go out on the street to perform for fun.

Also, the idea that most people have is that people buy these effects and practice them for next to no time and post videos up on YouTube where they get exposed and that is breaking many laws in magic.

That't the idea I get but I'm not 100 percent sure

But again I don;t think they are too bad, if a tad overpriced

You should also get Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. It is another staple for new magicians.

The reason why a lot of people dislike Ellusionist is because they rehash old material and sell it for extortionate prices. You could buy a decent book (or a couple of decent books, in fact) for the price of one of their DVD's with a lot more to learn in it.
I'm not sure of your level, but I recommend the books:

The Royal Road To Card Magic
Mark Wilson's Complete Course In Magic
The Tarbell Course In Magic (8 volumes)
The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks

I am sure many more of the good souls on here can offer other recommendations too, but many would agree that the information in these books is invaluable.

For me, Ellusionist brings to mind teenage kids with skateboards who say 'awesome' a lot and have seen David Blaine or Criss Angel on telly and want to do the things they do in five minutes with a 'quick-fix' DVD.
I'm sure others have different views!

Hey Jim!

3 books you need, to answer your question:

1) The Royal Road to Card Magic
2) Bobo's Modern Coin Magic
3) Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic

To answer you Ellusionist question is quite a ...contentious point.

E are experts in the marketing field; their salesmanship is - in fairness - second-to-none.

Many here would argue that the content of their DVD's is not on the same par, however...

The crux seems to be that Brad, whilst a damn thorough tutor, is actually somewhat lacking when it comes to the actual level of skill that he displays.

As an initial exposure to learning the magi's trade, I'm inclined to applaud him....but - in terms of encouraging the newcomer to review other, essential products, that are NOT stocked by Ellusionist, they are both lacking, and - frankly - arguably culpible.

You'll see, as your interest progresses, and you're drawn to other teacher's materials, that Brad is a businessman first, and a lover of the art second; many would argue that it really *should* be the other way around

Thanks for the advice I'll have a look for the above mentioned material.

Brad may perhaps have changed but I can assure you that when I knew him the ART of magic was very uppermost in his mind. I bet it still is. However he needs to make a living too.

Billy Mc'Comb used to have a saying "Art for art's sake, money for Christ's sake!" For those holy people who object to the blaspheming I can only say that you should blame Billy not me. He was the one who said it. I am only reporting the matter.

I can't see Brad completely selling out. All he thought about was magic in those days and he was so strict about the art that he thought it may perhaps be unpardonable to even use the word "trick"

No. The art of magic is safe in his hands. And so I am delighted to say is your money.

If you can afford it get the card college volumes 1 - 5 £100 or so, they will serve you well.

If your looking to get into card manipulation may I suggest Xtreme Beginnerz, Jeff Mcbrides art of card manipulation series, and Dan and Dave Bucks The System

Also if books aren't your thing or wish to have some visual form of learning and are a beginner then the following are great titles when it comes to card magic

1) Oz Pearlmans Born to Perform
2) Gerry Griffins complete card magic
3) Royal road to card magic (the Paul wilson version....not sure as I haven't got this one but I've heard good things)

Just to echo what's been said above, you'll get so much more for your money from a decent book than you will from a one shot, E trick.

I don't remember what the trick was now, but a few months ago I was looking over the E site and found a trick selling for £15. I thought, that looks familiar so I went home flicked through Royal Road and there it was, inside a book I paid £12 for.

Okay I think I'm starting to understand, it's not so much that people think Ellusionist is bad, but they just charge a lot for often slightly revamped tricks that have been around for a while. And thanks everyone for all the material you've been listing, I'll let you all know how I get on when I get them.

Everything that has been said is pretty much echoed by me. Firstly I'll say that I have to give credit to Brad as he has done well for himself in magic and marketing. But I just find most of the E stuff expensive and over hyped. I usually find that you can get stuff cheaper on other sites. Or as said before in books or other older material.

I do sometimes go onto the website to laugh though as I hear someone tell me. That within 2 weeks I will be ready to amaze and completely "freak out" my friends and family with magic not destined for this world...........

............until now (cue black and white screen then some music to build the tension).

im not overly keen on e stuff, but i understand it's a business at the end of it all...

its like alot of mentalism effects, you could buy lots of stand alone stuff for £10 - £20 each...but then if you look through one of the classic books, you'll probably find the very same effect (or the founding father of it if you see what i mean) amongst many others...all for ten quid...

im all for buying dvds if im struggling on one particular sleight, like the recent CullFather dvd, as the visual side of things really helps me learn the timing etc...

but with alot of e-releases, (not all granted) - they dont credit the originators, and as with one dvd i saw, brad actually condoned exposing the Pass to your specs, just to cover a little bit of dirty work...scandalous..

thats a bad, bad habit to teach...expose a classic move, just for 5 seconds of misdirection...just ask the group a question and make eye contact for scarne's sake...horrendous...

abraxus wrote:as with one dvd i saw, brad actually condoned exposing the Pass to your specs, just to cover a little bit of dirty work...scandalous..

thats a bad, bad habit to teach...expose a classic move, just for 5 seconds of misdirection...just ask the group a question and make eye contact for scarne's sake...horrendous...

Yes that was pretty bad... while I understand that he's just saying that most people kind of know what magicians do, they don't know exactly HOW to do it. It's far too big a price to pay simply for the glory of the "one-handed pass". You could just do an entirely different trick and get even more glory - if that's what you're after.

...and yes I agree with what everyone is saying. I started with Ellusionist stuff myself, and initially thought that this was the greatest stuff since sliced bread.... but now am realizing how almost all of the sleights and tricks shown in those videos (while being GOOD) have been around for hundreds of years and are very cheaply available in countless books written a very long time ago. So it comes down to "over-hyping" and value. So after you buy all the Brad DVD's (Street magic, Ninja, Crash Course, etc) you'll be down over $100, whereas you could have got the same stuff and MUCH, MUCH MORE in some books for $20.

It sounds to me like Brad's main value is getting new people into magic that weren't there before. He has introduced them to a new world of excitement and perhaps they should be grateful for that. If it weren't for Brad they probably would have missed the art of magic.

Now that they have arrived they can leave his nest and explore further. However they should probably say thank you to him before they leave.