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People have been talking about the new coin through bottle effects Ellusionist are planning to release. I was searching for other coin through bottle effects to get an idea of what CTB effects already exist and i came across Sealed and Stuck. From descriptions of the Ellusionist CTB effects, the Sealed and Stuck DVD really seems to be the exact set of CTBs Ellusionist plan to release, and definitely at a cheaper price than Ellusionist would sell the same effect for. At US$22.95, It looks like the real deal guys, I plan to purchase this in the near future. If this is the set that Ellusionist are planning to release than they are screwed Take a look at the creators website, it contains all the demo videos and details about the DVD:

http://www.aceillusions.tk/

Here is a direct link to the demo video:

http://www.freewebs.com/aceillusion/sealedstuck.htm

I had to contact the creator himself and i asked a set of questions which he replied to very promptly:

1. Did you come up with this effect completely by yourself?

Yes. I have been working on a series of coin through bottle effects and this is what I came up with.

4 Versions are taught in this DVD

S - Slam - A bottle is shown empty. The magician borrows a coin and asks the audience to stare at the bottom of the bottle making sure nothing is hidden. The magician then slams the coin through the bottom of the bottle. The coin is stuck inside the bottle as the coin is bigger than the mouth of the bottle. Everything can be examined.

S 2 - Sealed and Stuck - A factory sealed bottle is shown empty on all sides. The magician borrows a coin and melts it through the factory sealed bottle. Like Slam the coin is stuck inside the bottle too. Everything can be examined

S 3 - Signed, Sealed and Stuck - Similar to S 2 but the coin is signed by the audience. Everything can be examined.

Bonus: The impromptu version of S2, where you can borrow a bottle and do the effect.


2. Can the coin be borrowed and signed by any audience member?

Yes. The coin can be borrowed and signed by the audience member.

3. Can any bottle from any vending machine be used straight after it is bought from the machine?

Yes and No. For Sealed and Stuck you will have to perform the illusion using your own bottle. However there is an impromptu version where you can use any borrowed bottle, but it will not be an "impossible" ctb. In other words the coin is not bigger than the mouth of the bottle.

4. Can an audience member be standing behind you like in the demo video?

Yes. I already covered the angle issues in my explanation video.

5. Is the bottle examinable immediately after performance?

Yes. If you look closely that's what I did in the video. You can pass out the bottle right after you melt the coin in.

6. Is it an "impossible" coin through bottle effect?

Yes, of course. For Slam, Sealed and Stuck, and Signed Sealed & Stuck, the coin used are bigger than the mouth of the bottle. The only exception will be the impromptu version.

This looks great! But VERY Similar to Alex Ward's Sealed In. Is this the same method?

Yeah the description of the effect seems very similar, though Sealed and Stuck is an "impossible" CTB, can have the coin signed and it is extremely visual. I wouldnt know if its the same method as i do not own any coin through bottle effects yet. I am currently searching for the ultimate coin through bottle effect and i think Sealed and Stuck is it, it is the most visual without any funny jerks or covering moves. The price is also quite a moving factor.

Hi! I'm Ace, the creator of Sealed and Stuck.

I'm glad that you guys like my effect. If you search for the performance video of Sealed In, you can see the difference between my effect and Alex's effect.

For Sealed In, it is a fast penetration effect where the coin strikes the bottle and appear inside it.

For Sealed & Stuck, the coin melts through the bottle slowly and sinks to the bottom.

The only similarity between Alex's effect and my effect would be that both of us are using factory sealed bottles.

For the factory sealed version, you will have to use your own bottle. However you can plant the bottle in any supermarket and do the effect "impromptu". That is what i did in the video, before I perform the trick I actually bought the bottle from a store. I am being very honest here, no false advertisment. You will have to use your own bottle for this illusion.

If you think about it, it is quite hard to find yourself being able to borrow a factory sealed bottle. Most of the time you will find yourself borrowing bottles that are already opened. (There are 2 impromptu versions in the DVD to let you take advantage of this common situation)

The more common and easier way to get a factory sealed bottle is to bring your audience to a store, buy a brand new bottle from there and do the trick. Remember what your audiences see is you just go inside any store and grab any brand new bottle and perform the miracle.

They will remember you for a long long time.

I have tried and tested this effect and it gets amazing reactions everytime. Hope you guys will enjoying performing Sealed & Stuck as much as I do.

Ace

The effect looks great but I have some concerns.

Firstly, the whole “free webs” use of web site is rather cheap, tacky and very un-professional.

Please answer the following;

1) Have any respectable magicians and or creators seen you effect?

2) Do you have any credible names that can endorse your effect?

3) When did you first create your factory sealed CIB? How long have you been performing it?

4) Why did you not take this to a renowned magic retailer and or publishing company to produce your video and preview clips? (As apposed to free webs, home web cam, youtube etc?!)

5) Have you spoken with Nick Verna regarding his CIB and the similarities?

Sorry if I seem harsh I just need more convincing of why I should not wait for Nick Verna/elusionist’s “Factory Sealed” that is endorsed by world renowned, recognised, credible creators and magicians/where the creator is respected in the IBM whom caught the attention of one of the largest online magic retailers to produce his effect over your web cam, free webs, you tube set up?

Thank you.

The effect looks great but I have some concerns.

Firstly, the whole “free webs” use of web site is rather cheap, tacky and very un-professional.

First of all, I did not plan to sell this effect world wide in the first place.

It all started on May 23, a magician in the Singapore Magic Circle Forum wanted us to recommend him a good CIB. I gave a description of my effect and everyone said it sounds great and wanted me to post a demo video of it.

The demo was posted, and the response was great. Soon magicians were asking me to teach them how to perform the CIBs. I planned to keep this as a signature effect, but more and more people were asking me to release this effect. Hence, I finally decided to make a DVD and sell the disc to local magicians.

Before I did that, I have to check if my effect is original. I posted the video on the Magic Cafe. From the response, I concluded that my effect is original. This is one of the responses by one of the inner circle members.

"That is wild! I have never seen a CIB like that before (and I have seen a ton), so I would say it is original"

There are 1 or 2 people who thought it was using a certain method, and it turned out that they were wrong.

The video clip of my effect soon captured the attention of other magicians. They wanted me to release the effect worldwide, so people outside of Singapore can learn it too. Therefore I created the website and start selling the effect worldwide.

I'm a full time student now, and I don't have the budget to get web designers to help me do the website. I have approached a few companies and they charge me $2000 to $3000. At first, I wanted to give up the idea of selling this worldwide, but after some thoughts, I decided to try my best to share this effect with those who want to add this CIB to their magic. Freewebs is the only way I can think of to let this effect reach all parts of the world.

If you feel that it is cheap, tacky and unprofessional, I apologize. That is the best I can do with my budget.

I believed that the most important thing in a magic effect is how good the effect looks, how practical the method is, what are the reactions you can get.

A flashy website, top quality demo videos, tons of hype will help to sell the effect. But I don't think that those are the truly important things in an effect.

A youtube quality demo is enough to show people what Sealed & Stuck looks like, and the reactions you will get.

A free website is enough to let magicians who want to learn this reputation maker have a chance to perform this miracle.

Nowadays, people focus too much on the packaging, and don't see the value of the item inside the package.

Here are some of your questions. Hope I'm clear in my answers.

1) Have any respectable magicians and or creators seen you effect?

I have posted the video of my effect on various forums and I'm sure that respectable magicians have seen the effect. Justin Style is one of them.

2) Do you have any credible names that can endorse your effect?
No, and I do not plan to do so.


3) When did you first create your factory sealed CIB? How long have you been performing it?

I first created this set of CIB in June 2006. For the factory sealed version I already had the idea in 2006, but that is the very first version of it. There are too much set up involved in the first version, hence I tried to work on it and the final version was completed in May 2007. I'll give a brief overview of the method of the 1st version of Sealed & Stuck in my DVD.

4) Why did you not take this to a renowned magic retailer and or publishing company to produce your video and preview clips? (As apposed to free webs, home web cam, youtube etc?!)

I have sent the effect to the ellusionist. At first they are interested in the effect, but later they replied that they already have similar effects.

5) Have you spoken with Nick Verna regarding his CIB and the similarities?

I believed Nick Verna has already seen my CIB. I am very certain that both effects don't look the same at all.

This is a description of the effect of Factory Sealed by Justin Miller on the Magic Cafe.

"Just a heads up. I did the second version for some folks today while I was getting new tires. They had a pop machine there so I got a bottle of water out of the machine, borrowed a coin, and laid the coin on my hand. They then took the bottle and laid it on the coin...melt, right through the bottle and the guy took it home as a souvenir. Anyways this girl standing next to him looked at me and said "who are you?" ...priceless. "

From the above source, we can have an idea of how Factory Sealed looks like. A coin is laid on your hand. The magician or the audiences can place the bottle on top of the coin. When the bottle is on top of the coin, the coin slowly melts in.

For Sealed & Stuck, the coin is in your hand and you push the coin towards the side of the bottle. The coin melts into the bottle and sinks to the bottom.

Hence I believe that Nick Verna's CIB is very different from my CIB

Sorry if I seem harsh I just need more convincing of why I should not wait for Nick Verna/elusionist’s “Factory Sealed” that is endorsed by world renowned, recognised, credible creators and magicians/where the creator is respected in the IBM whom caught the attention of one of the largest online magic retailers to produce his effect over your web cam, free webs, you tube set up?

No, don't worry you are not harsh.

I'm not asking you to buy my effect and not to wait for Nick's Factory Sealed. Why not purchase both effects?

Yes, Nick Verna/ellusionist’s “Factory Sealed” is endorsed by world renowned, recognised, credible creators and magicians. The creator is respected in the IBM whom caught the attention of one of the largest online magic retailers to produce his effect.

Who am I? I'm just a magician with a nice original effect to share with the magic community.

My effect doesn’t need to be endorsed by world renowned, recognized magicians.
My effect doesn’t need any of that. My effect only needs to be appreciated by fellow magicians who can see the beauty of it.

I don't need to be respected in the IBM. I don't need the largest online magic retailers to back me up.
I only need the smile and laughter of my audiences when they see my effect.

Some people have bashed my effect, saying it is a poor imitation of Factory Sealed. The fact is Factory Sealed had not been released yet. They don't even have a demo video of it. How can I copy something without even a demo video?

I felt that it is very unfair to compare my effect with something that doesn’t even have a demo video.

The only reason they believed that Nick's effect is way better is because Nick is a respected magician in IMB and the largest online magic store is producing it and I'm just an unknown magician.

"How can this underdog produce something better than the almighty ellusionist? There is no need to compare the 2 demo videos. Ellusionist will win hands down; we don't even need a demo video to prove that."

I think that this is very unfair to me and my effect.

The Ellusionist mentioned their CIB last year. After 7 months, we don't even have a demo video or official product page. If you want to have a fair comparison, you can wait for them to release their product.

I'm not trying to compete with the Ellusionist's Factory Sealed here. I'm not trying to beat their effect.

I'm just introducing a new approach to the CIB routine.

Let's not see it as Factory Sealed VS Sealed & Stuck. Why not see it as Factory Sealed + Sealed & Stuck?

Both Nick and I are just trying to make the CIB routine more impossible. We are just making our contributions to this classic routine.

All the best,

Ace

here...*hic*...here!

all for...*hic*...one, and one for...*hic*...all!

Hi Ace,

Thank you for your response to my post and answering my questions. Many people would attempt to hide away or avoid such questioning, so thank you. It is clear you care about your reputation and your effect very much.

While I do not know how you get a coin into a factory sealed bottle, I assume there must be one fundamental way to get a coin in and the rest is presentation, which is probably ( I assume) where yours and Nick’s (and the other factory sealed CIB’s) differ, in the presentation, handling etc. If there is more than one way to get a coin into a factory sealed bottle then kudos to all those who have discovered such a method.

My initial concern, as I am sure you can understand is that when the thread emerged on the café regarding Nick’s CIB back in December 2006 and other threads prior to this on the ellusionist boards, that many people THEN decided to create their own versions and gain a “first to market” advantage over Nick and ellusionist.

However, you say you first had the idea back in June 2006, but that is a different effect to the one you are releasing, which would suggest by your own admission, that you created a CIFSB that required either a gimmick or tedious set up and then tried to make it better…possible when you heard about Nick’s effect? I don’t know. There is nothing wrong with that I guess. But the timing of all these CIFSB seems that people are just jumping on the bandwagon trying to make a fast buck. I am sure you can see that? Even without a demo video, you can still copy an effect.

Can I ask – what if your method is exactly the same as Nick’s, except maybe for handling? Because you got yours out first does that mean yours in the original? Nick has been performing his CIBs for many years, so the actual creation date will be deep in the past I would imagine. Whose is the original? You would have known Nick is releasing his version. Did you just want to beat him to it?

Some may say that magic is now a business (which it indeed is!) so first come first serve. You have to competitive etc. But I am strong believer in staying true to those who are the real originators, who work hard to produce something for their customers, not just produce something for the sake of a few dollars/pounds and 15 mins of "fame".

I saw your thread on the café with your clip and I can not see the response you quoted?

You started work in June 2006. You finalised your effect in May 2007? You posted a clip in June. And you are now releasing it in July? So in just over a year, you created and researched your IDEA. And in just a few months you have performed, audience tested, produced and released the final version? All seems very fast to me. Magic should not be rushed.

Yes money can be tight, we all understand that. But you simply would have had to of sent a video to a trusted company who would do all the leg work for you. I do not understand why you didn’t do this? You would have had a much more credible DVD and effect. Who knows, the company you approached might have added subtleties and nuances to make your effect stronger?! Were you in a rush to get your effect out? Possibly before ellusionist’s version?

I just can’t help but think this is an attempt to jump on the CIB bandwagon to make a fast buck.

Again, I do not want to sound condescending or harsh in anyway. I am just voicing my thoughts. Congratulations on developing your CIB, you have achieved what many have tried and failed. I do not want to stop creative thinking like yours. I am just trying to ensure that people are not just trying to intimidate many years of hard work by others.

So, here is where I stand. I will wait for the tried and test, IBM credible, professional editing and production from one of the largest online magic retailers, whose video will be taught by one of the most recognisable creator, performer and teacher in the industry at present time over yours.

You may feel that a “free webs” “you tube” “web cam” set up is just a means to an end. But I expect more for my money. There is more to magic than just the secret to the effect. Sealed and Stuck + Factory Sealed? Apologies, but not for me. Factory Sealed is the real deal, has been tested with years of performance and as been performed to some of the big names in this art which is now being produced by one of the largest magic companies.

I will leave you with a quote from Daniel Garcia, about how he started out creating and releasing effects;

ALSO it seems to be some sort of trend right now where younger guys just decide to come up with a trick and release it... BUT the ONLY reason they released the trick was to get "recognition" they develope a trick that they think will fool magicians.. they tape a demo... and there suddenly trying to release it to the community as a download or a DVD. Personally... if thats what your into magic for... then sorry... you have no respect from me. it hurts me becuase they dont see the other side of it where the "seasoned magicians" are just shaking there heads at them... i MADE SURE that i had therespect from the Pro's" - Danny Garica.

This is a direct quote from Daniel Garcia from another magic forum. You say you don’t want any credible names to endorse your effect, But this is something that would give you much more respect, I would expect my many people, especially from me.

If you are still reading then that is a miracle by itself, because ive just reliased how much ive written.

Whether you listen to what I have to say or not, I don't know. I maybe completely wrong with everything I have said, again I don't know. But I am being straight up and honest with you. I wont buy your effect, I will wait for Nick Verna's CIB.

All the best with the release of your effect.

*CIFSB = Coin In Factory Sealed Bottle

I must say, this looks spectacular! Is there any way I could obtain it?

While I do not know how you get a coin into a factory sealed bottle, I assume there must be one fundamental way to get a coin in and the rest is presentation, which is probably ( I assume) where yours and Nick’s (and the other factory sealed CIB’s) differ, in the presentation, handling etc. If there is more than one way to get a coin into a factory sealed bottle then kudos to all those who have discovered such a method.

I don't think it is just presentation. Take the ambitious card for example, there are so many ways to bring a card to the top. Same goes for CIFSBs. I believe that there are more than one approach to the CIFSB.

My initial concern, as I am sure you can understand is that when the thread emerged on the café regarding Nick’s CIB back in December 2006 and other threads prior to this on the ellusionist boards, that many people THEN decided to create their own versions and gain a “first to market” advantage over Nick and ellusionist.

I don't think that is how things work. With all the hype of Ellusionist CIB, I don't think "a first to market" will be an advantage. Almost everyone will wait for the release of the "Holy Grail of CIB" before buying other CIBs.

The most important point I want to make is I’m not even aware of Nick’s Version until May 27 this year. I was informed by one of the members in SMC that Ellusionist is planning to release their CIB effect.

Here is the thread
http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ ... =6517&st=0

I decided to release this set of CIB routine mainly because of the thread below. If chanzian of SMC did not start that topic on the forum, I would not have release my effect.

http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ ... =6495&st=0

Can I ask – what if your method is exactly the same as Nick’s, except maybe for handling? Because you got yours out first does that mean yours in the original? Nick has been performing his CIBs for many years, so the actual creation date will be deep in the past I would imagine. Whose is the original? You would have known Nick is releasing his version. Did you just want to beat him to it?

If the method is exactly the same (which I think is highly unlikely) I'll contact Nick and try to work out a solution. I believe that in the long history of magic, things like this had happened before. Wayne Houchin and Banachek's Stigmata is one example.

Still I don't think we are using the same method. The description of both effects are very different.

However, you say you first had the idea back in June 2006, but that is a different effect to the one you are releasing, which would suggest by your own admission, that you created a CIFSB that required either a gimmick or tedious set up and then tried to make it better…possible when you heard about Nick’s effect? I don’t know. There is nothing wrong with that I guess. But the timing of all these CIFSB seems that people are just jumping on the bandwagon trying to make a fast buck. I am sure you can see that?

No, I did not heard about Nick’s effect back then. I was working on this for several months and I had some problems with my effect. The biggest problem is, the penetration is not visual enough, and the coin is smaller than the mouth of the bottle. The 1st version I created allow you to use a coin bigger than the mouth of the bottle, but the set up is too tedious. The effect looks great though, some even said it looks better than the final version. Just that the set up is not for everyone.

As you can read from the links I posted above, I was motivated to finalize my effect when I heard about Alex Ward’s Sealed In. The method is very similar to my 2nd version of Sealed & Stuck. But I did not release or even perform it, because I think the effect is not visual enough. The coin just strikes the bottle and appears inside it, and in my opinion that defeats the purpose of melting a coin through a transparent bottle. I want the audiences to see the coin penetrate the transparent bottle slowly and watch the coin sinks to the bottom.

Even without a demo video, you can still copy an effect.

How is that possible? Maybe you are thinking that I copied the effect based on Justin Miller's description of Factory Sealed (Which I read after I released my effect).

If that's the case my effect would look like what Justin described. But my CIB is NOTHING like what Justin described. The only similar parts will be that both Nick and I used factory sealed bottles.

Some may say that magic is now a business (which it indeed is!) so first come first serve. You have to competitive etc. But I am strong believer in staying true to those who are the real originators, who work hard to produce something for their customers, not just produce something for the sake of a few dollars/pounds and 15 mins of "fame".

If you read my last post, you would have known that I did not release the effect for "the sake of a few dollars/pounds and 15 mins of fame. I released the effect because people over the world are asking me to release it. I'm just giving those that want to learn the effect a chance to learn and perform this miracle.

How come you keep mentioning the word "Real originators"? I am the REAL ORIGINATOR of Sealed & Stuck. You seem to be saying that I copied someone else's effect and you don't have any proof to back it up. Be very careful with that.

You started work in June 2006. You finalized your effect in May 2007? You posted a clip in June. And you are now releasing it in July? So in just over a year, you created and researched your IDEA. And in just a few months you have performed, audience tested, produced and released the final version? All seems very fast to me. Magic should not be rushed.

I believe in efficiency and don’t worry I will not compromise quality for speed. I have tried and tested this alot of times. I use Sealed & Stuck to end all my shows now. Just look at the demo video and you can see that it is well tested and proven effective.

Yes money can be tight, we all understand that. But you simply would have had to of sent a video to a trusted company who would do all the leg work for you. I do not understand why you didn’t do this? You would have had a much more credible DVD and effect. Who knows, the company you approached might have added subtleties and nuances to make your effect stronger?! Were you in a rush to get your effect out? Possibly before ellusionist’s version?

I don't know how long it will take for the whole DVD to be produced if I let someone else do the job. Look at Nick's effect, it has been stuck for more than half a year. I want people who want to learn this can learn it ASAP.

I'm not trying to sell this to alot of people, for those who think it is not credible, don't buy it. The last thing I want is to see every kid on the block starts performing or exposing Sealed & Stuck on youtube.

You are right that I want to get my effect out before the ellusionist, but NOT to get the so call "first market advantage". I just don't want people to say I copied someone else’s effect. Look at what's happening now, even though my effect was released first, you still think that I copied it from ellusionist version, which is not out yet and does not even have a demo video.

I put in hell lot of effort on this series of CIB. My room was filled with boxes of bottles. I have spent many nights, messing with the bottles, cracking my brains just to perfect the whole effect. Finally I get to release my effect and you are saying I merely copied it from someone else? That I copied my hardwork from something that is not even released yet?

Put your hand on your heart and ask yourself "Is this fair?"

I just can’t help but think this is an attempt to jump on the CIB bandwagon to make a fast buck

I really hope that the "CIB bandwagon" is not there in the first place. People like you will not be accusing me of copying someone else's effect.

Again, I do not want to sound condescending or harsh in anyway. I am just voicing my thoughts. Congratulations on developing your CIB, you have achieved what many have tried and failed. I do not want to stop creative thinking like yours. I am just trying to ensure that people are not just trying to intimidate many years of hard work by others.

Thank you.

I can assure you that I'm not trying to "intimidate many years of hard work by others."

So, here is where I stand. I will wait for the tried and test, IBM credible, professional editing and production from one of the largest online magic retailers, whose video will be taught by one of the most recognizable creator, performer and teacher in the industry at present time over yours.

You may feel that a “free webs” “you tube” “web cam” set up is just a means to an end. But I expect more for my money. There is more to magic than just the secret to the effect. Sealed and Stuck + Factory Sealed? Apologies, but not for me. Factory Sealed is the real deal, has been tested with years of performance and as been performed to some of the big names in this art which is now being produced by one of the largest magic companies.

Not everyone started out as an IBM respected magician. But seems like alot of people are comparing my effect to an effect created by a recognisable creator, performer and teacher in the industry.

I felt very honored and I'm sure this means my effect is not just "another magic trick of the youtube generation"

Whether you listen to what I have to say or not, I don't know. I maybe completely wrong with everything I have said, again I don't know. But I am being straight up and honest with you. I wont buy your effect, I will wait for Nick Verna's CIB.

That is your own choice and I respect that.

It is a little puzzling as you said my effect looks great, yet you say you won't buy it. I hope it is not because this great looking effect is created by a not well known magician and not by the big names in magic.

"An open mind will sure help you learn more and improve more"
Those are the words of my teacher, and I hope you will benefit from them as much as I do.

Have a great day,

Ace

I must say, this looks spectacular! Is there any way I could obtain it?

Thank you! I'm glad you like the effect. It can be found on my website www.aceillusions.tk


Ace

Thank you. I will be taking a look. Also, what is this new weffect Touch you are working on? Can you possibly give us a heads-up on it? Thank you!

You are welcome.

Touch is one of the next few projects we are working on. It is an effect where the magician can touch the card, feel the ink density of the card and tell what the card is just by touching it. This can be done with almost any borrowed deck. We are still trying to verfiy if the effect and method is original. We might combine the few projects into one DVD, so that the price is cheaper.


Ace

AndyAce wrote:You are welcome.

Touch is one of the next few projects we are working on. It is an effect where the magician can touch the card, feel the ink density of the card and tell what the card is just by touching it. This can be done with almost any borrowed deck. We are still trying to verfiy if the effect and method is original. We might combine the few projects into one DVD, so that the price is cheaper.


Ace

Just so you know, there's a very easy and impromptu method for this that's been done for a long time.

AND there's my impromptu method... PM me if interested.