talkmagic.co.uk

That, sir, depends on your style of performing. I don;t claim to be psychic, nor do I believe I will (though I may be wrong). The presentation I give is a psychological stance - influence, NLP, e.t.c - even if I don;t use these methods for some effects, I tell them I do.

I love it when I see people confessing to this sort of ploy believing (due to the allusions given them via Brown, Rowland and others) that this is more "legit" than claiming to be "Psychic".

Guess what? YOU'RE STILL FREAKING LYING! Secondly, at 20 years of age or even 25, very few people in the world are going to look at you and believe it credible that you are expert enough at NLP, Body Language and all that other cynically inspired hookem to give you credit.

Find yourself a copy of Bob Cassidy's Principalia; study them on end and look at what you want to accomplish as a performer and see if and what you claim or envision fits into those molds. I can tell you right now that Credibility/Viability will prove short in proof due to you age.

Someone mentions Banachek's success at fooling researchers 20 some years ago but what they forget are a few circumstances surrounding his success such as having at least two well learned old timers available to them with ideas, techniques, etc. They (Steve, Gerry and if I recall correctly there was one other guy in that group) were being guided by "Mentors" who have experience, who coached them in how to do things that fit their age and "claims" thereby making the whole scenario viable or, as it were BELIEVABLE!

99.9% of what we do as Mentalist depends on that investment of belief and to achieve that our claims, actions, etc. must all match and add up, otherwise we are just fooling ourselves more than anyone else... we are selling ourselves as well as our craft, short in that we are simply presenting tricks and public acts of vocational masturbation.

One thing I have always stated is that exceptions exist but they are less than 1% of all of us out there trying to make the grade. Given your attitude of determination Chris, I have no doubt that you will achieve some sense of prominence BUT wouldn't your success shine brighter if you took pause and looked at applying the logic we old dogs have been talking about? Wouldn't you think that your star could shine in greater brilliance if, instead of arguing and more or less insisting on doing things your way, you choose to listen to the voices of experience and let that serve as a guide?

I was on stage doing big Illusion at 10 and 11 years old and people moaned over it... but then, Greg Wilson was my age (actually a bit younger) and doing the same as were a few other kids... EACH OF US had coaches, directors, "managers" it wasn't just a bunch of spoilt cute kids with a few hundred grand in neat tricks, lighting, sets and costumes... NO SHOW is ever the product of one person nor is a single entity in show biz self-created; it takes time, patience and the willingness to be willing to listen to others. When we start doing that and applying what we hear the most to what it is we are trying to do, then our personal vision will begin to take form and in time what we produce will prove far more fantastic than your current fantasies around such things can take you.

An 18-20 year old kid can do it BUT, they must have what they do in context. What most in that age group now days find are fans that "love their tricks" -- they are seen as magicians NOT Mentalists... not someone that is gifted, be it at intellectual or spiritual/esoteric levels. Few of us are honest with ourselves and do not hear that subtle difference in the voice of our patrons and their requests and this, like the other issues that have been drawn out, are the things we must ponder and weigh as we attempt to move on an unfolding trail towards our dreams.

Think about it

strangely, i find cassidy one of the rudest and most abrupt mentalists going...on stage that is...obviously don't know the guy...i love some of the principles he employs, but he makes my blood boil!

i hate the excuse of "hard-ass", when they really mean "rude"...

being an english gentleman and all, it goes against the grain for me...

Why do we need to say anything at all. Why do you need to give it some Brown or Rowland on one hand on the other Madam zar zar.

I always say "Lets try something here, it uses the mind" or words to that effect. Sometimes I will say this is a priciple a fraudulent medium will use.

Since I am nothing more than a back-stabbing, pizza driving nobody living in one of the most backwards places on earth, this probably will amount to nothing (dry rain in the desert, as it were), but...

Chris, it sounds to me like you have a good head on your shoulders. Give them a good show and you have my best wishes.

Please make sure that you let us all know how it went.

Mike.

Craig Browning wrote:Someone mentions Banachek's success at fooling researchers 20 some years ago but what they forget are a few circumstances surrounding his success such as having at least two well learned old timers available to them with ideas, techniques, etc. They (Steve, Gerry and if I recall correctly there was one other guy in that group) were being guided by "Mentors" who have experience, who coached them in how to do things that fit their age and "claims" thereby making the whole scenario viable or, as it were BELIEVABLE!

So the story about Randi deliberately chosing young guys who could think on their feet, and who were self-taught, was not true? I wouldn't be at all surprised, and I really do bow down to your expertise on the subject.

It was just that Steve (I think - in the Psi Series DVDs) said that Randi wanted to be able to say, truthfully, that he had not coached the kids who fooled the scientists.

right...I've just got back from work, and am in a bad mood...so I am going to be blunt here...

love it when I see people confessing to this sort of ploy believing (due to the allusions given them via Brown, Rowland and others) that this is more "legit" than claiming to be "Psychic".

not once did I claim that claiming to be psychic was not "legit" or "unnacceptable". I stated that depending on your style of performing, you are more or less believeable to the public. If you had read it correctly, then you would have seen that I stated that the believeablilty of your performance, and therefore the overall effect, depends on your performing style. Not once did I bash anybody claiming to be psychic, nor say that psychologiucal explanations are "better" or "more legit".

Secondly, at 20 years of age or even 25, very few people in the world are going to look at you and believe it credible that you are expert enough at NLP, Body Language and all that other cynically inspired hookem to give you credit.

once again, I said that I would claim that I am no expert, but surely if this is "my job" (as they would believe that it is), they would believe that I have at least some knowledge of it? And if performing, I cover up all the exits, all they have to think of, as a solution, is the one that I give them! Especially if that is the damn solution anyhow!

Find yourself a copy of Bob Cassidy's Principalia; study them on end and look at what you want to accomplish as a performer and see if and what you claim or envision fits into those molds

I may pick it up - but who says that what I perform "has to fit" into a specific category? Why not perform what I want to perform, and what the audience enjoys me performing? If what I do does not fit under mentalism or magic - so * what? I'll perform "Beardism" if I have to! I perform, what I am good at. And this...well...they hired me after a demo, did they not?

can tell you right now that Credibility/Viability will prove short in proof due to you age.

Wayne Rooney football internationally for England at the ripe old age of 17 - people did not watch him and say "he is only 17 - he is cr@p" they said "cor blimey - he is * ace!". At the end of the day, if they watch you and are entertained, and left in wonderment...who cares whether you are 20, or 120? Either way you have done your job, and left them wanting more. Or is that not what we go out and want to do? It seems sir, if you disagree with me, that the only reason you perform is to stroke your own ego. If you agree with me, then there seems no further point to this conversation.

Someone mentions Banachek's success at fooling researchers 20 some years ago but what they forget are a few circumstances surrounding his success such as having at least two well learned old timers available to them with ideas, techniques, etc. They (Steve, Gerry and if I recall correctly there was one other guy in that group) were being guided by "Mentors" who have experience, who coached them in how to do things that fit their age and "claims" thereby making the whole scenario viable or, as it were BELIEVABLE!

yes...he also got famous because of a spoon bend...

What you forget is that all you have to do is to be able to offer something fresh and new, to make it big. If I am honest with you...at this point in my life I do not want to do this full time - hell, I'm off to University next year! But if I do what you say, and copy someone else "who made it" and research "what they did" to "make it big"...screw it! I do not want to be another "Derren Brown" or another "Banachek" or another "Uri Geller"...I want to be the next "Chris Beard", and for (in another 20-30 years time) people to argue over whether they want to be unique, or the "next Chris Beard". So whether or not I have some "experts" on hand to train me is irrelevant. I do not want to be someone else...and have people training me to be someone else. I want to be the "next Chris Beard", and the only person who needs to train me, is myself.

Unless you want to be the next Chris Beard Mr Browing? I offer tuition lessons if you wish? At a very affordable price as well!

99.9% of what we do as Mentalist depends on that investment of belief and to achieve that our claims, actions, etc. must all match and add up, otherwise we are just fooling ourselves more than anyone else... we are selling ourselves as well as our craft, short in that we are simply presenting tricks and public acts of vocational masturbation.

Indeed - hence why I am performing in a style that I believe fits me. What is the point of claiming I am psychic, if that doesn' fit my performance character? I am not saying that claiming to perform as a psychic is wrong...no more am I saying that claiming to perform psychologically is right. All I am saying is that performing in a way that suits your character, is the right thing to do - and if it fits you, what is there left that isn;t believable. The way that I come across when performing, fits my explanations - hence why they enjoy me, and ask me for a return performance. And therefore, they are entertained...which, at the end of the day, is the bottom line, is it not? Once again - feel free to disagree with me, in which case you believe that the only reason to perform is to stroke your ego, or to be the next Uri Geller. Once again, those "be the next Chris Beard" lessons are still up for grabs, if you want them!

One thing I have always stated is that exceptions exist but they are less than 1% of all of us out there trying to make the grade. Given your attitude of determination Chris, I have no doubt that you will achieve some sense of prominence BUT wouldn't your success shine brighter if you took pause and looked at applying the logic we old dogs have been talking about? Wouldn't you think that your star could shine in greater brilliance if, instead of arguing and more or less insisting on doing things your way, you choose to listen to the voices of experience and let that serve as a guide?

At the end of the day, we perform what fits us. I have dedicated a lot of study to the "past greats"...and I am still studying. I am not naive enough to say I know everything...and I am 100% sure that you do not know everything either. It wouldn;t be feasible to say so! But once again...I do not to copy everything that they do...I want to be unique, I want to be Chris Beard...and I do not need a tutor to teach me.

Unless you want to be like me...I can give you lessons if you wish! They are at a good price! Why not copy my techniques? Or am I not old enough? Damn I wish you weren't so opinionated that "young people have nothing to offer in the world of mentalism, and all they do is s*** things up for us (self-centered) older (tw*ts)"

and you have the voice of experience...yes...but, no offence, I do not want to be like you. I want to be like me! Do you want to be like me? I offer lessons...why not do what I do? Going by what you are saying, you do what everybody else does! I can offer lessons if you wish! Or did I mention that? Either way - they are at a good price! Want me to write a book for you? Only then will it seem that I have any respect from you...or am I not old enough? Apparently not...

I was on stage doing big Illusion at 10 and 11 years old and people moaned over it... but then, Greg Wilson was my age (actually a bit younger) and doing the same as were a few other kids

ahhhh...so what you are saying is that young people may actually have at least a smidgen of stuff to offer?

EACH OF US had coaches, directors, "managers" it wasn't just a bunch of spoilt cute kids with a few hundred grand in neat tricks, lighting, sets and costumes... NO SHOW is ever the product of one person nor is a single entity in show biz self-created; it takes time, patience and the willingness to be willing to listen to others. When we start doing that and applying what we hear the most to what it is we are trying to do, then our personal vision will begin to take form and in time what we produce will prove far more fantastic than your current fantasies around such things can take you.

s***...I guess I spoke to soon...

But i am going to take that last comment in parts, if I may...

EACH OF US had coaches, directors, "managers"

so you are saying that it isn;t possible without a manager? At all? Bloody hell...so you are saying that [u]every single person, in the history of magic, or even performing itself, who managed to do performances had a manager? Didn't think so...and also. You are saying that you and Greg Wilson (someone who I respect very much) both had managers at 11? Man...your manager must have been sh*te...look where he left you! After doing a bit of background research on you, Mr Browning, it seems all you are famous for is pissing people off...

Greg Wilson performs worldwide...

I guess it was your manager's fault...it isn;t the person...and you obviously can;t make it in this world without a manager...or are below the age of 50...

it wasn't just a bunch of spoilt cute kids with a few hundred grand in neat tricks, lighting, sets and costumes

OK...now this is where I really take offense. Do you know me? No. Do you know what my financial status is? No. Do you have any idea, how much work I have to do, to even buy a single book? No. My family is not rich, and nor am I a...to use your oh so finely picked words..."spoilt brat with a few hundred grand" of equipment. I struggle for money...hell - at the moment I have a terrible part time job, with a c*** (not the best) wage, and am attempting to study to better myself in life...hopefully to achieve better than you, if at this age the only satisfactiopn you get is to tell people to listen you your "experience". It looks like all we have to do is do the opposite of what you did, and we might do ok in our career.

Let me put it this way. I believe that Paul Brook is a very good performer. I own two of his manuscripts...and I have wanted to read all of them for the past year. If I was a "spoilt brat" I could have just "ran to mummy" and asked for the money. But no - I have to work my ass off, just to get a damn book for £25! So I take great offense at the statement that you think of me as a "spoilt brat" with lots of money in gimmicks, and "tricks" - you have no idea how much I work at what I do, or even my skill level at it. All you have to go by is my age...and if we talk about Wayne Rooney again...he must have been terrible...he was only 17 when he played...oh wait. Sorry. My mistake. He is one of the world's most famus at this point in time!

NO SHOW is ever the product of one person nor is a single entity in show biz self-created; it takes time, patience and the willingness to be willing to listen to others. When we start doing that and applying what we hear the most to what it is we are trying to do, then our personal vision will begin to take form and in time what we produce will prove far more fantastic than your current fantasies around such things can take you.

agreed...not "one person" makes a show...but you do need a minimum of one performer. In my performances, I am the only one who performs...in Uri Geller's performances, he is the only one who performs. Yes, I have several people to thank, for the support I get from them, the help "backstage" so to speak. But that doesn;t mean they perform as well. Without them, I couldn;t perform, as they can;t do what they do, if I didn;t perform myself. It is a give and take relationship. And I know that...you, however, don't know that I know that. Well, you do now...hopefully. You have no idea what I do...once again, you make assumptions on my age, having never even seen me perform anything "mental"...even over the internet...

An 18-20 year old kid can do it BUT, they must have what they do in context. What most in that age group now days find are fans that "love their tricks" -- they are seen as magicians NOT Mentalists... not someone that is gifted, be it at intellectual or spiritual/esoteric levels. Few of us are honest with ourselves and do not hear that subtle difference in the voice of our patrons and their requests and this, like the other issues that have been drawn out, are the things we must ponder and weigh as we attempt to move on an unfolding trail towards our dreams.

yes. Somebody of this age can do it...you even "made it" at age 11! wow! Or at least put on "shows" at that age anyway. Have you ever seen me perform? No. Have you ever met me, and seen my performing style up close? No. So how do you know that I do not have the ability to perform at this age? You don't. Hence why I know that I can do it...hence the fact that I have done it...and also why I strongly disagree with you, sir. All you have to base your argument on, is your age. Hell, Dynamo is more famous than you are, and he is young. Yes, he may perform magic, rather than mentalism, but he ceryainly made it! Derren Brown managed it, and he is younger than you. But wait! He doesn;t do "real" mentalism does he? He fools himself with NLP! Oh well...I still think he did a damn good job of "fooling himself". He had a unique performance style...and that is what helped him. You copied all the "past greats", and didn;t make it all too well...maybe you need to be someone unique...want to be the next Chris Beard? I give lessons! At a good price as well!

Think about it

Oh I have...I have...and I have a very strobng opinion on it, as you can see. Let me put it this way...my strongest belief in life, is not to conform. I have done performances on conformity for audiences, on more than one occasion, I have studied the psychological aspects of conformity, and why it occurs, and I just do not like those who do stuff to "fit in" or "to be cool" rather than because they specifically want to do it! Now, I am telling you this why? I'll answer for you. I am telling you this just so you know who you are arguing with. You are arguing with someone who doesn;t bow down easily to what other people believe, doesn;t do things the way they are "normally" ro "meant to be done". You are dealing with somebody unique...somebody who knows what they want, and go for it. And do not allow anybody to bully them out of it.

I always had respect for you, sir. I may not have always liked the way that you put your point across, but I always had my respect for you. Now, it seems, you are blinded by your arrogance. You believe that you are right - that you should do things the way that they have always been done, and are not open to change, and do not believe that somebody who is young has anything to offer to this world.

New millenium, new rules babes.

Think about it.

so there!

So don't ask for help or in put from people that have been doing it all their lives... run out, do what you will with no regard to how it affects others in the business, your own reputation, or any of it. Why ask for any kind of direction or insight?

Craig Browning wrote:So don't ask for help or in put from people that have been doing it all their lives... run out, do what you will with no regard to how it affects others in the business, your own reputation, or any of it. Why ask for any kind of direction or insight?

I never asked for help or insight from you or Doug. I told what I have done in my experience to the starter of this thread - half of it tongue-in-cheek - and you guys bit my head off and said I was wrong. Naturally I was to take offence - how was I "wrong" persay?

I'll stick with what I do; thus far, as it has come to success, I shall carry on learning, studying, and doing what I have found to be enjoyable for both me, and my client.

You still want those lessons, sir? Very decent price! Or am I still too young for you?

Or maybe it is because I am English...we Brits do have a different sense of humour...and a different opinion when it comes to ages and what the young can offer as well...

If young adults are so unconvincing, why are there so many young working hypnotists? In fact, it seems to me that so many people actually introduce themselves as stage hypnotist/beginning mentalists, some with long stage careers already behind them. Love him or loathe him, our very own Mr Browning was also a child prodigy.

It seems to me that young people are clearly very capable of acting convincingly (what else is the hypnotist's role if not that?). So, clearly, some approaches can work for young people. That being the case, why not just present things as feats of subtle, waking suggestion. After all, the public either love or are terrified of the idea in equal measure - and pretty much everyone wants it, so they tend to believe it regardless of whatever else they believe.

You see, it occurs to me that if we're not supposed to get into mentalism until a certain age, surely we're just old newbies when we start.

Blapsing_Beard wrote:New millenium, new rules babes.

I am SO stealing that!

Tomo wrote:

Blapsing_Beard wrote:New millenium, new rules babes.

I am SO stealing that!

I'm dying to use the tag line "Boldly striding into the 1890's" on my website, but I haven't got the bottle.

Re: the argument. There is no white, there is no black, only varying shades of grey. You can tell I'm esoteric.

Or maybe it is because I am English...we Brits do have a different sense of humour...

I do think culture does come into it on message boards irrespective of the subject, we Brits do have a strange sense of humour when it suits us. We also have the freedom to speak as we think however in some circumstances i.e. the respect of Rules on a message board we refrain from saying what we really think and hope the person reads between the lines.

Reading between the lines can often give a better perspective on what the person is trying to say, do , achieve. English is a complicated language so we need to read with care at times on the real meaning of what the person is trying to get across, if a post seems offensive re-read it because often you can see a mistake in the wording that triggers a an instant emotion good or bad.

After reading what Craig has put I have come to my own conclusion about him for which I feel is fair

Craig Browning’s responses in this thread I can only say I have lost any respect for him now, in the words of our beloved Ann (Craig Browning you are the weakest link good bye.)

Take it as humour or sarcasm either way it will not change my perception.

TC All

abraxus wrote:strangely, I find cassidy one of the rudest and most abrupt mentalists going...on stage that is...obviously don't know the guy...I love some of the principles he employs, but he makes my blood boil!

I hate the excuse of "hard-ass", when they really mean "rude"...

I think that's an attitude that works when in a biker bar, but it makes me uncomfortable when watching him in a stage environment.

Tomo wrote:If young adults are so unconvincing, why are there so many young working hypnotists?

The nature of what is being claimed?

"I can hypnotise people."

*People acting like chickens*

QED

Which suggests that perhaps the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I suppose it depends on what you are claiming. To say that you learned interrogation skills from your detective father seems rather laughable to me, yet there's a famous mentalist who apparently makes just such a claim.

A 17 year old who claims to have ten years' worth of psychology experience is obviously not going to be believed. However, one who is studying psychology and demonstrates a bit of what he's learned could be plausible.

Let's put it another way. Marc Salem has, I believe, qualifications in the field of psychology. He has been called as an expert witness in court cases, and advised on educational psychology for 'Sesame Street'. (I am assuming these facts are actually true, but of course, it is showbiz...)

Derren Brown has, I believe, no real background in psychology and no recognised qualifications. He's clearly read books on the subject, and worked as a stage hypnotist (when quite young), but I don't think he has any degrees, or diplomas.

Yet they both do a similar kind of act. Derren's effects demonstrate his 'ability' in the field.

I haven't lost any respect for Craig, as I know he's a veteran, and passionate with it. He speaks from the heart, and from experience.

I have, however, gained respect for Mr Beard, for his spirited defence of himself.

considering the girly drinks beardy consumes, he was "strong like ze bull" in his eloquent retort...

he still smells though..that will never change...

i think ultimately, in summing up, you can only do your own thing...you can't wear anyone else's pants can you...