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These are just my thoughts - if mods wanna delete them as possible exposure then that's fine as it's a difficult line to draw since so many people seem to be discussing various options. I really like this effect and I don't wanna spoil it for anyone.

At the start of the trick the cards are passed to matt to shuffle, notice that the cards nearest him are diamonds with clubs the closest, and that the cards split at Queen of Diamonds, 4 of Clubs, and the Queen of Clubs. At that point he is told that he is being "taught" how to do a trick, that it's "important", and he's to "focus" his attention on the cards, to agree it's full deck, and all "four suits" are there.

Matt shuffles picks 3 cards, Derren idly counts them and sets them on the table. Matt then picks 3 cards - and there's some prompting from Derren in the lead up to naming these cards. He distracts Matt for the first two cards, there's some hand waving and use of Matt's keys, two black cards (the Six of Clubs and the Four of Clubs) are chosen. After that the pace changes, Derren talk to Matt about being Jewish, the Jack of Diamonds is chosen. Matt's guesses are pretty much spot on.

The rest that follows is similar to effects performed the world over so you probably have your own thoughts from here.

I can't wait for Derren to publish this one, as I'm just dying of curiosity.

I don't think it's got anything to do with where the deck splits. It could be, as a sub conscious thing, but I personally don't think it is.

It could have been very easy for Derren to switch the cards, as I'm pretty positive that's what he did, but I don't know how Matt chose the cards he did. I'm rubbish at Metalism and Phycology and stuff like that

Stooge. Plain and simple. EVERYTHING mentalist do uses a stooge. 13 steps only has 3 words in it "Use a Stooge"

I would be very surprised and even a little tearful if I find out this is all stooge work.

Yeap it is. Stooges everywhere. Thats all mentalism is.

According to an earlier post by TOMO Mr Brown never uses stooges. I am more inclned now to think of some kind of "pre work show" going on. I wonder if a certain Mr Brook might know ?

I study DB alot. I have a collection of mentalism books that is roughly 300ish plus many more magic, psychology, hypnotism, memory , ad many many more books.

While I dont feel like reasearching this topic to deeply take into fact that he put the actor to sleep first getting him ready for mindplay itself. DB often uses minor hypontisim in the sense that the person is deep into what he says wether or not they realize it it very usefull for pub ticks.

He has stated in his books pre show is everything and in one of his show he sggest he play wiht your mind before you even get in the theatre.

he also mention when that live roulette thing comes into question he says something liek no matter what you are left with a good bit of tv . He is first and formost a entertainer.

By now you should all know its a preformance.
I dont know if I already siad this but I think it was db that said that the preformance can start long before the show though it may have been someone else I get books crossed.

Posts from this point on have been split off and locked - it's a very bad start to find acrimony so early in the new year.....

More on DB. Even when he shows you a trick there is more to it. In his Something Awful(I forge the rest) the theatre thing anyways he does this whole cutting up a news paper thing but I had already seen it previously in another book I read. He just Dressed it up and combined tricks.

Mandrake: I knew I sensed a mod with the page numbers changing.

Desvelar wrote:More on DB. Even when he shows you a trick there is more to it. In his Something Awful(I forge the rest) the theatre thing anyways he does this whole cutting up a news paper thing but I had already seen it previously in another book I read. He just Dressed it up and combined tricks.

One of the first things you realise in mentalism (or I did, anyway) is the gulf (chasm might be a better word) between cause and effect. It's far wider than is usual in regular magic, meaning that you have far more freedom to weave a convincing presentation that fits with what Bob Cassidy calls your subplot in Fundamentals and what Brown develops into a whole approach to creating realism in Absolute Magic. I think it's in the introduction where he says that even if someone intellectualises your perfromance later, as you have done above, and dissects it into a series of simple tricks held together with a veneer of presentation, that doesn't matter. He performed, you were entertained. That's all he, you or anyone else needs.

All this talk of stooges really gets me down. As I said at the start of the thread that was split off from this one. Look into pre-show work. A good place to start is Paul Brook's book "The Gift - The 14th Step to Mentalism". If you really do have so many books on psychology and hypnosis, I seriously suggest studying them for what they say on the topic of inducing post-hypnotic suggestions.

But please, please, don't confuse owning an extensive library with understanding what it contains. And vague allusions to ideas and effects without concrete sources will only attract ridicule. Some of the people reading this thread are extremely well read in mentalism and love nothing more than to mess with the minds of people they see as bluffing it.

You are right Tomo he certainly gets people talking. When all is said and done, he is probably the number one entertainer in mentalism at the moment(maybe of all time). I would love him to come on here and enlighten us somewhat, but I have a feeling I would be left further in darkness.

He is one of the nicest and most genuine person I have ever met. Honestly. He is excactly how he is on tv, and very humble. I was too...dumbfounded to talk about magic, but i did have a 2 minute chat with him about "the heist" and get an autography. (very odd handwriting).

We were in a cafe, and as my Dad and mines coffee came, a man picked up ours and we picked up his by mistake. We turend round to find derren!

Claim to fame!

i remember when i first found his site ages ago, i e-mailed and asked about his friendship with Sadowitz, and cheekily asked for an autograph too..this was ooooh when he had his beard like it was from the international magic lecture...

anyway, i got a reply within 30 minutes from coops, and i got a signed photo the very next day too...and it was properly signed, rather than a print!

i wouldnt care if he had a massive ego either, thats up to him, but its nice to know he's still the charming old mind-fiddler he seems on his show...

i met andy nyman last year, nice bloke, he even demo'd killer elite!

Here are two more card tricks performed my Derren Brown.

His version of Oil & Water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAt2juuxMMY

and his trick on Stephen Fry. Theres been quite a lot of talk about this trick and apparently the use of the "gimmick" is discussed on the Devils Picture Book. I have yet to get that far, so i'll have to wait and see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AewhMHhCmNQ

Finally, his trick on Steve Merchant. Very funny use of prediction, persuasion and suggestion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOvM_I8t6pY

If anyone else has any of Derrens Card Tricks, please post the links!
I am slwoly working through DPB but some different stuff would be great!

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