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You know, Mexicub, I was rather taken aback by your comment on magicians doing something fishy, because it's exactly what I was thinking when you were talking about doing a DL in an odd sort of way (because you're a magician and, well, that's just how magicians do it).

So why would you turn over a card like an average Joe when youre not an average Joe?

Why? Because any other way is a "tell." That's the "fishy" thing that you're talking about. When a spectator observes you do something that just ain't right, they might not know what you did, but they know that something's up.

I find it rather comical that you can identify this "fishy" thing in someone else's material, but just don't see it in your own.

So, when you flip your double "because that's just the way that a magician does it" then you are telling your spectators that you're doing something that ain't quite right. They can't see what you did but they certainly know that you did something fishy - the magic is lost.

Mike.

Michael Jay wrote:You know, Mexicub, I was rather taken aback by your comment on magicians doing something fishy, because it's exactly what I was thinking when you were talking about doing a DL in an odd sort of way (because you're a magician and, well, that's just how magicians do it).

So why would you turn over a card like an average Joe when youre not an average Joe?

Why? Because any other way is a "tell." That's the "fishy" thing that you're talking about. When a spectator observes you do something that just ain't right, they might not know what you did, but they know that something's up.

I find it rather comical that you can identify this "fishy" thing in someone else's material, but just don't see it in your own.

So, when you flip your double "because that's just the way that a magician does it" then you are telling your spectators that you're doing something that ain't quite right. They can't see what you did but they certainly know that you did something fishy - the magic is lost.

Mike.

So youre telling me that magicians who do these moves like magicians lose the magic? So that would mean every professional magician does it the wrong way?
What I'm saying is if you practice your DL's you will seem less fishy doing it than when you do it and have not practiced. Tell me that I will perform better less fishy magic if I don't practice and I'll stop practicing right now. The average Joe would not handle a DL as smoothly as someone who practices it, thats why. Practice makes perfect so you can do moves and the spectator has no idea that you're even doing them, its part of crowd management and misdirection. But telling me I will be a better magician if I do it sloppy is not exactly the best advice.

Plus Micheal I never said anything about doing DL's in an odd way? Where did you even get that? I was talking about doing moves in general in a way you practiced that would not seem odd when done. Of course if you do anything in an odd way anyone would be fishy about it.

The average joe shouldn't even know that a DL exists. And, I didn't say your handling should be sloppy (just as Kolm never said that she moves fast).

Handle your cards like any average person handles them and you don't draw attention to your moves. That's all I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure that that is precisely what Kolm is saying, too.

Mike.

Why are you defending Kolm? That has nothing to do with you, plus I was just adding to what he already said not pertaining to what he said in particular, just some extra info. And I agree the average Joe shouldn't know what a DL is but you need to practice your moves to make it look like your doing nothing and that's my point. The average Joe would do it sloppy, and I don't think any magician wants to do a sloppy DL. But since you want to bring up someone elses replies read the one where Kolm says he DOES NOT practice moves to make it look like the average Joe did it, so do you agree with NOT practicing moves to be a better magician? If he would have said I practice moves to make them look like what the average Joe would do then that's a whole different situation.

Michael Jay wrote:Handle your cards like any average person handles them and you don't draw attention to your moves. That's all I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure that that is precisely what Kolm is saying, too.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear. That's what I've been trying to say. Thanks for making it clearer for me

(Edit: sorry mexicub, I think you were misunderstanding me. I totally agree that you should be practicing your moves like your DL, otherwise you're right - the spec may well see them. I just don't practice my handling - stuff like how I hold or shuffle my deck of cards. Or turn one over)

Dude, I'm not defending Kolm - I honestly doubt that she needs me to do that. I'm just having a conversation and she happens to be part of it.

Geez, Bro, take it light, eh? We're just debating theory.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Mike.