talkmagic.co.uk

It uses nine cards, no markers and a very simple force. Don't really want to give too much more away on a public forum. I reviewed the book a while back here.

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic28180.php

themagicwand wrote:Craig's going to see the title of this thread and he's going to shout.

Now Why Would You Think I'd Be Such an A**hole Over Something As IGNORANT As Doing Card Tricks With a Tarot Deck?





My only major qualm around this asinine idea is that one should not use one of the more "unique" decks such as most legit Readers would employ. My habit is to simply use the Rider-Waite design whenever I'm doing a trick (ewe! I hate that term) involving the Tarot... it's just a personal thing that allows me to segregate my working decks from those I use in a Party or Show type of setting.

My biggest pet peeve when it comes to such, is when someone starts doing an Ambitious Card routine, Triumph, Assembling Aces or a Miser's Dream using them (think about it...)

I first started using the material from Minch and Magus back in the 70s and 80s but "graduated" into a more "grown-up" approach to such things That is to say, I discovered that there was simply more power in working WITH the cards vs. exploiting the mystique around them and general human gullibility/fear & ignorance in a feeble attempt at starting some sort of religious following.

YES, I do and believe it is perfectly fine to use Tarot within an effect that is Reading based. Rick Maue does have some interesting ideas along that path but unfortunately Rick is a magician and not a Reader e.g. he doesn't catch those little tid-bits that will take such material outside the realm of being a "parlor trick" and into a Twilight Zone like dimension. An awesome example of this is Philemon Vanderbeck's spin to the age old 21 Card Trick (you will find it in the back issues of OORT or the up-dated version in my PSYCHIC TECHNOLOGIES manual). Then too, my "Pseudo-Psychic Gambit" ain't to shabby when it comes to this particular route of course in that it plays (and is, for the most part) as a genuine Reading.

We must understand that there is a bit of a chasm around this thought i.e. doing tricks with Tarot Cards. For the Reader there are "tricks of the trade" such as ways of using the cards themselves as a means by which to gain insight to the client's concerns (see THE LEATH Technique for an example). Even the marking of cards (typically the Major Arcana only) is looked upon not as a "cheat" in the line of being a "Charlatan" but more akin to using a proper pair of Wire Strippers vs. Cutting Pliers when splicing an electrical circuit. In other words, you're merely using the right tool for the job rather than half-azzing it and using the wrong approach.

Such nuances differ tremendously from the Medallion/Talisman routine mentioned in Book of Thoth (one of my favorite bits, btw) or forcing the Death Card on some poor sap for the sake of a cheap chill. Then again, I'm one of those pain in the tukkis old school thinkers when it comes to mentalism, always striving towards realism vs. doing a magic show with some sort of paranormal veneer.

Thanks for the heads up on a few things there Craig, I love the 21 card trick in your book and need to go over it again as I want to use it in the future. I'll have to drag your books out as there are some other reading bits I want to go over.
only performed 2 tricks as such with Tarot apart from my bit I use on stage which is a 1 card based reading. 1 of them was the rite of damon and the other involved a pendulum and me finding the sitters card then the sitter finding mine.

There's a great tarot effect in Doug Dyment's Mindsights. Doug's material is fantastic; unfortunately, it is little discussed on TM.

I would suggest studying the tarot before you go out and begin to perform for the public. But, if you have thought about it yet, why cannot you mask the card "tricks" in a standard reading. As in you give a spectator a basic three card reading, you start in, but the center card let us say the 9 of swords keeps bothering you, you specifically take it out of the deck and lets say place it in a box, shuffle the deck and lay out 3 new cards. You go through the reading again this time flipping up each card as you come to it. The last card lying facedown begins to give you a weird psychic energy, you are almost afraid to flip it over. You do and low-and-behold it is the fabled 9 of swords. You run over to the box and there in its place is the "Death" card. You have tried to alter a persons fate which can only result in Death, showing the power of the tarot over fortune. You continue on with the reading.

But remember THIS IS NOT A TRICK, you do not treaat tarot card tricks, as tricks. Otherwise it will crumble. If you continue to pester the spectator to check the deck, cut the deck, if you fan the cards and treat it as you would a bicycle dek of 52 then you will have no luck in the tarot releam. I suggest you learn ins and outs of the divination system and treat tricks as a very hidden skill that you employ during readings just to "Liven" it up.

theseer wrote:I would suggest studying the tarot before you go out and begin to perform for the public. But, if you have thought about it yet, why cannot you mask the card "tricks" in a standard reading. As in you give a spectator a basic three card reading, you start in, but the center card let us say the 9 of swords keeps bothering you, you specifically take it out of the deck and lets say place it in a box, shuffle the deck and lay out 3 new cards. You go through the reading again this time flipping up each card as you come to it. The last card lying facedown begins to give you a weird psychic energy, you are almost afraid to flip it over. You do and low-and-behold it is the fabled 9 of swords. You run over to the box and there in its place is the "Death" card. You have tried to alter a persons fate which can only result in Death, showing the power of the tarot over fortune. You continue on with the reading.

But remember THIS IS NOT A TRICK, you do not treaat tarot card tricks, as tricks. Otherwise it will crumble. If you continue to pester the spectator to check the deck, cut the deck, if you fan the cards and treat it as you would a bicycle dek of 52 then you will have no luck in the tarot releam. I suggest you learn ins and outs of the divination system and treat tricks as a very hidden skill that you employ during readings just to "Liven" it up.

Surely you've been around long enough to know that there are many in our world who believe that wearing eyeliner and putting a bit of stage blood on a card makes them Bizarrists

That said, what makes you think more than 10% of those reading our words will heed the wisdom of NOT treating things like tricks

I sure do know what you mean. Thank god I am not one!

But to be honest I would say less than 1% of what I write on this form will ever be taken for what it is worth.

All I can say is do not diminish the value of the tarot. Remember people legitimately believe in their esoteric powers so to treat the cards as you would a plastic prop.

Craig Browning wrote:
Surely you've been around long enough to know that there are many in our world who believe that wearing eyeliner and putting a bit of stage blood on a card makes them Bizarrists

You need the pentagram medaillon too, ignorant !

As someone who does thousands of tarot readings I find there is something almost sacrilegious about using them for card tricks. It seems to devalue them in some way. And any tricks I have ever seen with Tarot have been abysmal anyway.

There is one fellow I have seen in Toronto who has ruined a perfectly good 3 cards across done with regular cards by using tarot. A prime example of the old adage that many a good trick can be killed by improvement.

I don't have a very good argument to put up for not using the tarot for card tricks. Let us just say that it is an instinctive thing. Most tarot card tricks can be done with regular playing cards anyway.

And so they should be.

Well, you ain't see the good ones...

Or the performers didn't wear the pentagram in the good position (it must be chromed and placed in reverse, pointing down).

On the other side, I've never seen a tarot reader doing perfect card moves. So the effects must be awful and terribly amateurish.

I am a tarot reader and I can certainly do card moves which are absolutely perfect. I was a card magician before I became a tarot card reader. I merely think that if you are going to do card tricks then you should use regular cards.

Anyone that does tarot card tricks is in danger of being struck down by lightning because this is against the laws of metaphysics.

So, if I listen to your advice, I should stop performing bizarre magic for high fees; stop doing routines like Zodiac, Pact, Oracle, Prophecy, the Quan-Tri Paradox, the Coney Island Witch, Arcana, and other professional routines* that use tarot or fortune telling cards.
(I can handle a deck of cards too, I won the McMillan competition in 1993), I'm a bizarrist and still a cardman...

*If you don't understand what I mean, feel free to read those two magazines. They were both published simultanously in October 2007 and give a little idea about my work.
You can even read the texts of those routines/stories here, on the magic cafe or on my site. Not to mention my books on the subject.




Until now, lightning didn't struck me; but I will replace all those routines by the Hermit's hippity hop rabbits over the Moon...

I prefer Lizzies Rabbits myself...

Craig Browning wrote:I prefer Lizzies Rabbits myself...

Have you tried the Tarot Dippy Duck of Hell ?
When the Fool points the Moon, the Dippy Duck catches the Finger.(*Belgian Metaphysics)

Don't know those but Bill Palmer and I have played with the idea of featuring Gene's Toe in a Zombie effect

Mystery of the Tarot Toe

I think I'm on to something even Poinc would appreciate... he'd better, it's his bloody toe!