talkmagic.co.uk

At what point do you suddenly wake up and realise "You know what I'm a successful, talented, magician."

7.15 am when the alarm clock buzzes (couldn't resist that one)

Seriously though - I'm with Dale on this. Professional is an all encompassing title that means different things to diferent people.

There are some very unprofessional professionals in all walks of life - not just magic.

I wouldn't get hung up about it. What your audience calls you is more mportant than what you call yourself.

MagicalSmithy wrote:I see everywhere magicians saying I am almost semi professional or I just turned professional..

My questions lays in...how do you know when this moment comes...are you sitting on the toilet when you have a magical epiphany (sp?) or does some one call you it one day.

Now don't get me wrong I know you have to work hard to be professional but would you put on your business card Amateur Magician or unprofessional magician lol.

So how do you know when to say I am semi pro or pro.....I mean I will always go about a gig professionally but that would only make me professional in one meaning of the word.

Regards Justen Smith.

The Term "Semi-Professional" was invented by various aspects of the show biz world (mainly clubs and groups) because so many hobbyists approach it all as a weekend gig (at most). Truth be known, the majority of those that THINK they're a professional fall into this niche even though their ego encourages them to think different.

The Magic Castle's membership app defined Semi-Pro as someone that generates a third or less of his/her annual gross income by contributing to the craft as a performer, designer or consultant.

Contrary to popular thought getting paid DOES NOT make you a "Professional" it just means that you talked someone into giving you some cash for whatever it is you do. Again, most of us (especially those seeing the lower-end of the fee scale i.e. $300.00 to $800.00 on private home parties, etc.) simply have a hobby that kind of sort of pays for itself. Being a Pro means that you have a serious stake in the game and that it sustains no less than 50/60% of your personal net income annually and that you work it AS A BUSINESS not a matter of happenstance... an for those that don't know it yet, when you start making magic your business you are talking about easy 12 + hour a day, even when you aren't doing shows; you still have to do the mailings, make the calls and sell your product! Even an established and in demand pro invests about 8 hours into a single gig if they are doing them right (not my words but those of those that do it for real).

Professionals also approach it all with a PROFESSIONAL attitude... they aren't trying to be the next Derren Brown or whomever but rather seek to be themselves. They don't have time for chasing after the newest, hottest thing out there and rarely have much to do with any of the forums on line unless they are trying to sell some kind of book or new bit. It is very rare though that the real world workers that keep busy doing shows, produce that kind of side stream (within the industry) until they have put in that 20-30 years building a personal nest egg, name, etc. Too, a very large number of these people YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF. I can list dozens of performers that see easy 6 and 7 digit incomes that very few in the magic world know of so don't equate fame and fortune with the idea of being Pro that's merely the exceptions (less than 5% of those involved with the craft as a vocation)

Oddly there is one other side to this coin not noted here -- Retired or Semi-Retired

As one that fits the latter niche I can tell you that's it's only a minor difference to what being semi-pro would be. Mainly because you've already been there, done that and have many worn-out T-shirts to prove it and thus, it's your memories and war stories that keep you going (whether you want to or not). It's also that element that gives you the "Prize Fighter's Syndrome" or wanting to go out and do it one more time before calling it quits... but then you could be like John Calvert and find yourself in a second career

Wowzers some great suff coming out here, I think i asked a question that was sebnsible for a change. YAY ME. (way to ruin it )


I would one day hope to be full time but my god is it hard....at the moment im lucky to get a booking a fortnight..... even though people tell me im good enough for the trade and love it when i perform i still cant get the customers.

You can twist the language any way you like, but being a professional means that you make your money from magic. Being semi-pro means that you make some of your money from magic. And being amateur means that you do it for fun.
Professionalism implies certain standards, but those standards follow from being a professional; they do not define professionalism. If you have been doing magic for money and paying the bills you are probably good, and probably punctual and consistant. But talent, consistance and all those qualities do not make you a professional. What makes you a professional is the pay check. Tony.

TonyB wrote:You can twist the language any way you like, but being a professional means that you make your money from magic. Being semi-pro means that you make some of your money from magic. And being amateur means that you do it for fun.
Professionalism implies certain standards, but those standards follow from being a professional; they do not define professionalism. If you have been doing magic for money and paying the bills you are probably good, and probably punctual and consistant. But talent, consistance and all those qualities do not make you a professional. What makes you a professional is the pay check. Tony.

Nice closing statement.

TonyB wrote: But talent, consistance and all those qualities do not make you a professional. What makes you a professional is the pay check. Tony.

but its the talent, consistency and all those qualities that get you repeat bookings

IAIN wrote:

TonyB wrote: But talent, consistance and all those qualities do not make you a professional. What makes you a professional is the pay check. Tony.

but its the talent, consistency and all those qualities that get you repeat bookings

Ahh... and this is where we find something another wise old curmudgeon speaks on when it comes to this topic... The Pros get the repeat gigs and really aren't pros until that proves to be the case.

Sadly, I know of many very well known acts out there who are not all that technically talented but they are solid business minds and of course I know at least that many if not more that stand on the opposite end of that line... in fact most "artists" fit that mold.

I cannot agree with Tony's mini rant on getting paid and paying your bills with it makes you a pro, partly for this very reason and partly because I know far too many schmucks that make the money and don't pay their bills as well as those that aren't worth a tenth of what they demand half the time. But this is a strange business and the one big constant I've found is that every one claims to make the big $$$s and believes themselves the cat's meow

TonyB wrote:You can twist the language any way you like, but being a professional means that you make your money from magic. Being semi-pro means that you make some of your money from magic. And being amateur means that you do it for fun.

Quoted for truth

pretty much anyone can get a one off booking with magic...and be awful, ill prepared or just no where as entertaining as they'd like to think they are...and you could make maybe £1200-1500 a month doing it, by undercutting everyone else...

you'd be classed as a pro...but would be a professional?

I always work on the basis that 'Professional' means earning a living at whatever it is as opposed to 'Amateur' who does it for free or perhaps only part time for tips or a low fee. There's also the connotation that 'Professional' means doing a superb job whereas 'Amateur' can mean less than acceptable, often shoddy. Professionalism would be the art of doing things to a very high standard.

Of course we now move on to figuring out the difference between a 'Professional' who isn't working thus earning nothing and an 'Amateur' who is working and earning!

Many moons ago Scott Guinn mentioned that his full time occupation is magic, performing, lecturing and earning a crust that way but he would be able to do that if his Wife wasn't working and bringing in another income.

Ok so if your a fulltime Magician then most of your day i would have thought is sat at home practicing and waiting for the gig phone to ring...?


Now I work in the day, but when the gig phone rings I answer it and take the bookings..If Ive got a gig i leave work early for it or take the day off...I work just as many magic hours as the next bloke if not more yet "apparently" Im not a proffesional!!!

...even thought it pays my mortgage and I run my business in a proffesional way so I say balls to this semi-pro cr*p...Im a proffesional performer...Only I just sit on my *rse getting paid in an office waiting for the gig phone to ring...

Dont be labelled by others mate, you will know yourself when you are a true proffesional and dont let anyone tell you otherwise!

It appears that "professional" means different things to different people. I suppose all opinions are equally valid. This thread reminds me of a past thread about TM's "magic status"; what's the difference between an amateur hobbyist and a skilled hobbyist? Like "professional", I guess it's open to interpretation.

One dictionary definition of "professional" is: following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain, which would support some of the views in this thread.

As far as the arts go. Professional, part time pro, are labels we put on ourselves while conversing with other magicians. That way, if we really don't know the other person we kind of know where they stand magicially, so to speak. Of course when talking with magicians always remember the golden rule. Whatever they (we) say, divide by three.

As far the lay audience goes, they are the ones to decide and we should always act professional around them.