talkmagic.co.uk

It is with a heavy heart but a clear mind that I write these words.
As many of you know, I worked with Outlaw on the two Luna books, 1936 and 1935. The original idea for the books came from the brilliant Bill Cushman who thought an Outlaw style book test using a patient registry would be really popular. Rick Rothbart sent me one message:

‘Google Colney Hatch.’

I was excited to be involved with this project from the outset as it combined history, psychology, mentalism, and mystery. I set to work researching the history of psychiatry in the UK and the history of Colney Hatch. Rick and I spent many hours on the phone between California and East Bergholt discussing the design of the book, the leading pages, the cover, the facing pages, and the invisible method. Rick worked tirelessly on the coding, lists, names, and aging of the finally printed book, while I worked on the setting, the ambiance, the profiles, and the presentation of the routine.

We agreed that I would receive a fixed fee per book as compensation for my efforts, as well as a promotional set of books. I offered to sell the books in the UK to cut down on shipping costs. I have featured the product in my lectures and performed the routine countless times in my shows and for one of the Tabula Mentis meetings in London for Psycrets: The British Society of Mystery Entertainers. The lectures and Tabula performances have led to further sales.

Payments began to arrive, but after a few months dried up completely, and I only ever received one copy of Luna 1936. Meanwhile, Luna 1935 was being advertised, pre-orders were being taken, and the magic community eagerly awaited the new book. Five months transpired in which no book actually existed and I was put in the awkward position of seeing the advertising and knowing that no such book existed.

I eventually got a call from Rick who apologised for the delay and lack of payment for Luna 1936. We agreed new terms: I would assist in the writing up of Luna 1935 and a blurb and instructions for the use of The Luna Key Box by Tim Wisemann. In turn, Rick agreed to send me a Luna Key Box and 10 Luna 1935 books.

I did what was asked of me on Luna 1935. I received one book and was told the box and the remaining nine books would follow shortly. No books or box came for months after the release of Luna 1935. After four or so months and many messages to Rick, the Luna Box arrived, which is a top-crafted prop that now features in my presentation of Luna and will be part of a new DVD project in February. He assured me that the 9 remaining books were on their way shortly. I still have not received them. In September I wrote to Rick explaining that I would post a message such as this if I did not receive the books by 15 October. A week before my deadline, I received another call from Rick apologising about the delay and admitting that his estimation of delivery was in error. He promised that I would receive the books within two weeks, which would have been October 22 at the latest.

It is now November 17 and I have not received the books and thus I have no other alternative than to post this notice.

Why?

We are a small and relatively unprotected community of passionate performers and creators, and this kind of business practice is simply unacceptable. I have not received a statement of sales on Luna and the whole idea of royalties as I receive for all the other books I produce (see www.amazon.com) has simply not been honoured.

In contrast, my work on the Ink Blot Cards with Card Shark sets the standard for magical collaboration. We agreed that I would research and write the booklet for the cards, Card Shark would print and market the cards, and I would receive a set of decks as payment. Once the cards were released, I received the decks, and enough booklets and bags to be able to sell the product at lectures, etc. This is how it is supposed to work. I have had similar positive experiences working with Peter Duffie on the Mindblasters books, Larry White (RIP) and Davd Goodsell at Oracle Magic Magazine, and Bill Cushman on Subliminal Squares.
I will continue to perform and market Luna 1935 and Luna 1936 as I believe in the product and value the high quality production for which Outlaw Effects is famous.

It is with regret that I have had to post this message, but I felt that it was necessary.

Best wishes

Dr Todd

i applaud you for doing so sir, and you have my upmost support in the matter...

Sorry to hear you have been treated so badly. There are two sides to this issue and I would encourage Rick to post his explanation on this thread. I must confess that this is not the first time I have heard bad things about Outlaw; I do hope this does not continue as it would be a shame to see them go downhill like this. It seems like Rick is forever apologising to people for failing to provide the professional service we all expect from a company like Outlaw, but not actually doing anything about it, or only acting when a customer makes a legitimate complaint on a public forum.

Come on, Rick; this is not good enough and you shouldn't be treating your customers and colleagues in such an unprofessional manner. If you can't fulfil customer orders for whatever reason or, as in this instance, find yourself unable to pay Dr. Todd what was agreed for whatever reason, then you should be honest about it. Just come out and say so. Explain your reasons and put it right as soon as you can. All this is assuming, of course, that Outlaw are still a reputable dealer, and I sincerely hope you are. Don't fob people off for months on end with no satisfactory resolution in sight. It's not at all professional, it's not acceptable and it's wrong. Sort it out, mate.

Dr. Todd,

I've had my eye on the Luna series for some time now. I'm very sorry to hear this, and I hope Rick contacts you and can work something out. I've not had any issues dealing with Outlaw myself, although that's strictly as a retail customer. As you point out above, it looks like you have a lot of good business relationships.

I had the pleasure of seeing this performed by DrTodd a few week ago and it was such a strong effect which has left its mark on me.....I hope the problems are resolved soon as it is such a shame that all the hard work goes unrewarded.
ian

Sorry to hear this after all the effort you had put in.

Well, that's a very sad state of affairs. Sorry it came to this, Todd, but you gave plenty of time for this to be sorted. I hope something gets sorted soon. You've done the work, and you deserve your payment.

I know Im not the only person to have had very poor service from Outlaw, including props that just never arrived. I no longer buy from them.

What you've experienced Todd, takes the biscuit. You are a creator and it is in the best interests of the business (if for no other reason) to uphold their agreement with you. Lets hope this proves their downfall, and leaves the way open for honest, reputable and reliable dealers. Saying that, I still hope you get your books.....

Do you have any records of conversations between the two of you? Especially regarding your payment, the books etc etc? Or was it just a verbal agreement?

If you have records, you should probably take some kind of action against him for not upholding his end of the bargain after you have given him WAY more time than is reasonable to do something about it. Sorry to hear that you have been treated this way, good luck.

It's a real shame as their products really are top class. Personally I have had no problems with orders from them, they have always arrived when expected - sadly it is tales like this that puts people off and starts the company on that rocky rock to ruin.

Good customer service can make up for a sub standard product, but no matter how good a product is, it will never make up for poor customer service.

I've told you all about my experience with them and I won't use them direct again

Reverend Tristan wrote:I've told you all about my experience with them and I won't use them direct again

As i have said before me neither!

To your credit though Todd, at least you have acted professionally!

Matthius88 wrote:Do you have any records of conversations between the two of you? Especially regarding your payment, the books etc etc? Or was it just a verbal agreement?

If you have records, you should probably take some kind of action against him for not upholding his end of the bargain after you have given him WAY more time than is reasonable to do something about it. Sorry to hear that you have been treated this way, good luck.

Yes, I do have a record. I have received indirect and direct assurances that things are moving. Proof is in the pudding.

It's a shame Outlaw have decided against posting a direct assurance in this thread; I think this would help to secure potential business partnerships in the future. I think Rick's silence in this thread will put off some creators from working with Outlaw in the future, not to mention scare some customers away. The fact that a name like Dr. Todd Landman has started a thread of this nature would scare the hell out of me if I was Rick. Anyway, best of luck.

phronesis wrote:

Matthius88 wrote:Do you have any records of conversations between the two of you? Especially regarding your payment, the books etc etc? Or was it just a verbal agreement?

If you have records, you should probably take some kind of action against him for not upholding his end of the bargain after you have given him WAY more time than is reasonable to do something about it. Sorry to hear that you have been treated this way, good luck.

Yes, I do have a record. I have received indirect and direct assurances that things are moving. Proof is in the pudding.

Then I would start taking some kind of action on them, or at least make it clear that you are willing to. Its incredibly bad practice how you have been treated, especially in a proffessional capacity. It is definately down to how far you want to take it though, friend. Its a bad situation indeed. Again, I wish you luck and hope that it gets resolved.