talkmagic.co.uk

Anna wrote:Know that psychic do not exist - nobody can tell you when you will die, and if you panic too much that may affect your health anyway!

Relax, smile, go for a nice meal and night out, rip your will up, and have a good day

Good advice. But at least statistics can tell you what you're likely to die of: http://url4.eu/1M35A

Indeed - what you are going to die of statistically is very different to telling somebody when you die 20 odd years previous - that can be very damaging.

*Part of post retracted*.

To the original poster I must reiterate - nobody can tell you the exact date that you will die unless you are vitally ill and it is a doctor......and even they can be wrong very frequently

In fact - the day after you are "meant to die" give me an email and I'll go out for a nice meal with you

Anna wrote:Indeed - what you are going to die of statistically is very different to telling somebody when you die 20 odd years previous - that can be very damaging.

Craig - do not call me inexperienced when you do not know me. I perform for a living. Don't try and contradict what I already know - in my personal opinion you are causing more harm than good.

To the original poster I must reiterate - nobody can tell you the exact date that you will die unless you are vitally ill and it is a doctor......and even they can be wrong very frequently

In fact - the day after you are "meant to die" give me an email and I'll go out for a nice meal with you

You're very direct my dear I must say

I'm not direct in all aspects of my life

When it comes to things like this though, that can genuinely have a negative effect on somebody's life because of one or two people, sometimes you need a good strong woman to stand up and reach for the stars!

Anna wrote:I'm not direct in all aspects of my life

When it comes to things like this though, that can genuinely have a negative effect on somebody's life because of one or two people, sometimes you need a good strong woman to stand up and reach for the stars!

You're funny too

Hey Anna, I do believe that maybe you should reread Mr Browning's post. It wasn't you he was calling inexperienced, it was a type of psychic; the shuteye and he was saying that it is inexperiened shuteyes who cause alot of problems.
I actually think he steered away from getting personal in his reply.

I think the question of the topic was answered....not need to go in another debate

Flash wrote:Hey Anna, I do believe that maybe you should reread Mr Browning's post. It wasn't you he was calling inexperienced, it was a type of psychic; the shuteye and he was saying that it is inexperiened shuteyes who cause alot of problems.
I actually think he steered away from getting personal in his reply.

I apologise and admit that I acted rashly and misunderstood the post. My earlier post is now retracted.

Sorry for everything! Thanks for pointing it out!

Hey we all do it Anna... But good for you to admit it.

not the best start to this forum

Anna wrote:I'm not direct in all aspects of my life

When it comes to things like this though, that can genuinely have a negative effect on somebody's life because of one or two people, sometimes you need a good strong woman to stand up and reach for the stars!

Like yourself Anna, I bite back.

What you shared was YOUR opinion on something it is not a universal truth. My suggestion is that you stop where you're at on this issue and check the archives, I do not back down on this point and I loathe CYNICS (they might think they're "skeptics" but are far more extreme in their views).

Truth of the matter is aspects of what Psychics/Mystics have claimed for centuries are being exploited right now by science and even the toy/game markets... I know that certain detractors will try to mask over what's going on, but if you know the essence of genuine psychic training and its more legit meanings, there is no denying that what we are seeing in the technology world is stepping forward on similar ground.

The other truth centers on Intuition and Instinct -- how the human subconscious collects information "subliminal" information and gives to us a physical as well as analytical sense of things that typically proves to be correct for those folks that are "in tune" to such sensations. . . and I'm not saying it's a Psychic exclusive; Intuition is used daily by cops, business leaders, salesmen and more, including folks in our world. Thus far nothing has been able to disprove the reality of this particular influence though we do know that it is stronger in some vs. others and too, it can be consciously evolved... ironically, the process of expanding one's intuition is again, identical to those processes used for "developing" psychic type abilities.

While it is true, someone that does DIVINATION can not give you a pin-point "This is when you will die" type of prediction, there are ways of offering an estimation; especially through Palmistry. But even that is malleable -- concrete destiny does not exist in that every human being has their freedom of choice, and as has been said already, some people's belief in Readers - their misunderstanding as to what a Reader really is- can bring about self-fulfilling results, but then most everything in our lives fits that formula, which is why affirmative thinking (meditation) and visualization methods are so potent when it comes to reaching one's goals.

Though I have said this a few dozen times, there is a huge difference between being a Reader vs. being "Psychic" -- anyone can learn how to Read the cards or whatever, it is a discipline and quite literally a language that anyone can learn to work with and know exceptional results in the process, free of all the magic world's "explanations" and one liners.

Oracles of this sort are quite literally "training tools" -- they help the student learn how to focus their thoughts while likewise becoming more and more aware of the finer "energy" within their environment... which brings us right back to what was being said about Intuition, which in my opinion/experience IS what the majority of people embrace when it comes to the fantasy of being Psychic...

Yes, I said "Fantasy" of being a Psychic in that many of the patrons of a Reader as well as those shut-eye/self-taught Readers romanticize the idea of what being Psychic is all about; they are being unrealistic. BUT, so-called "debunkers" and self-proclaimed "skeptics" likewise fall into this mis-association -- they superimpose onto the idea certain fantasy based factors that frequently come from Urban Legend and antiquated lore vs. an evolved and mature look at the idea.

In truth being "Psychic" is quite mundane and not nearly as phenomenal as some would like to make it

Psychics DO NOT have any kind of special "Power" though, because of the fantasiful thinking noted above, people mis-translate what they've seen or experience. From what I've seen in hundred of interviews and encounters at least 95% of it all is 100% natural...
... which brings up an important bit of perspective here...

Just because you know how an Asrah Levitation works does not make it any less magical, especially to those NOT "initiated" into our fraternity... those not "in the know". This is exactly the same thing we have when it comes to any arena tied to mysticism.

Based on your original claim, one echoed by far too many, every single person that becomes a "magician" must become an Atheist and bow only to the Religion of Science & Mind. Not only is such an attitude disrespectful of the majority of the human race, it's arrogant! Such imposition hurts magic all the way around and robs most of us of being able to understand the power of enchantment when we create it by way of belief -- one of the most essential ingredients of any magical performance.

Yes, there are hustlers and con-men out there, but to say that every single person that calls themselves a Psychic or Medium is such would be akin to racial profiling or any other mode of typecasting; we all know that such assumptions are rarely applicable to all people set beneath such umbrellas... at least that would be the case if we are in fact honest and mature human beings.

I've done Readings since the latter 1970s and in all that time I've not met a single skeptic that's walked into that world with the intent of actually learning. Most come with the (possibly subconscious) desire to NOT find confirmation of things.

Why?

People fear such things, it's that simple

I've said more than enough here. If you look at the archives you will find more than sufficient detail when it comes to my position... and by the way, you know nothing about me either, but I'm more than certain my career, even with all the battle scars, shines just a bit and lends to me qualifications in making the judgments I make and standing in defense of people that have "faith" (and I'm far from being a holy roller).

As to the "strong woman" line... I like in Northampton, Massachusetts the Lesbian capital of the planet. I deal with "strong women" regularly

I may be new to the frum Craig Browning but you are annoying me a little bit - I hope I'm not speaking out of line when I say that.

You say that claiming to be psychic is not wrong...I disagree. There is no such thing as psychics. It is people like you who claim to be the real thing and hurt people in the long run.....especially when said "psychic" states that they predicted 9/11, 7/7, or any other world shattering event....but only state that they have predicted it after the event has occured. It's almost as bad as Derren telling people the lottery numbers 10 seconds after they have been announced!

You also state that all people who become magicians automatically become atheist. That is incorrect. Furthermore, you state that people who suggest all "psychics" are con artists are putting them all in the same boat. Are you not doing exactly the same as the latter statement when you make the former? That is, you are putting all magicians in the same boat by saying they "must" become atheist? Let us not bring religeon into the debate here also.

Finally, the quip at the end about strong women could be seen as rather hurtful. I however, shall not take it in a negative way, instead thinking that you just do not have a sense of humour, or a sense of morality.

Somebody's palm lines cannot tell somebody when they will die - your lines depend on the size and shape of your hands - the crinkles, if you will, when you close them. The size of your hands do not affect whether or not you are hit by a bus, crash in an aeroplane, end up with HIV or even cancer. The only time they can affect your death is if you slip on the edge of a cliff, and not be able to grab the edge because your hands are not big enough.

I shall end it with this line:

nobody can tell you when you will die. Psychics do not exist. Craig Browning is wrong.

Woa, hang fire Anna.

You say that claiming to be psychic is not wrong

In the right context, Its right to leave them wondering.

If you state outright, at the start of a performance that....

there is no such thing as being psychic ... it does not exist!!!

It then tells your audience, that everything that follows.... is a trick.

Now to me, if your going to do this, you might as well stick to pulling hankies out of your ear, and Rabbits from your Knickers.
What your telling an audience is... Your a magician.

And to answer your next thought...

(Clearly I'm Psychic )
what somebody like Derren does, is to replace the Psychic angle, with science.

You dont however hear him openly admiting he's a magician.. even though we all know he is.

Kreskin also took this stance.. but he took it further. His whole life, turned into a masive characterization of how a psychic would be, if he were real.

Geller.. Another perfect example, of someone taking this aproach. And possibly hes taken it further than anybody before.

Good points you make, however what we see here is a psychic who has obviously damaged somebody psychologically through many years of their life.

By telling this gentleman that psychics do exist, when they don't, could cause further stress and potentially fatal consequences

It is my opinion that it is wrong, however obviously that is my opinion, and shouldn't be seen as true fact

derren does kinda admit it though...by mentioning magic at the beginning of each tv show...but knows full well that people never remember that very first bit...

theres lots of other ways to present mentalism other than the two main reasonings...

bottom line is though, even if you could somehow know via oracles, goat entrails, mystic meg pube divination, or any other means - actually telling someone that information is still wrong...

especially as they've just paid to see you...you want repeat bookings and clients surely?!

and yes, yes, i know unethical psychic con-persons will tell someone they are dying but if they come back with enough money, they can be saved...