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mark lewis wrote:I am not too sure about the "wearing make up" bit. Especially if Danny lives in a small town.

Such inhibitions must be overcome, otherwise the performer will always be holding something back which the audience will inevitably notice.

I think the audience will be far more likely to "inevitably notice" that the performer is not acting like a normal human being than it is to notice that he is "hding something". A man wearing make up in public does seem to me to be a trifle noticeable.

In Toronto I expect it would be all right since some very bizarre behaviour goes on here on a regular basis but in a small town walking around wearing make up may be considered a trifle odd.

At one time entertainers used to wear make up on stage but even that has died out. Doing so working close up seems to be a trifle bizarre to me. Not quite what I meant by showmanship. There is a difference between showmanship and exhibitionism you know.

I would have thought that it was the exhibitionists who were trying to hide something rather than the non-exhibitionists.

Perhaps in this sense, 'wearing makeup' doesn't mean the full Monte and looking like a drag artiste - possibly just using a coloured moisturiser, perhaps something to dull the shiny spots on the forehead but that's about all. No need for lashings of Leichner!

Quite a few makeup companies are doing men's ranges now. There're all very subtle shades and not at all obvious but I think if they're applied well can really help bring out you features and cover blemishes. There's nothing at all wrong with taking care of your appearance.

'Lashings of Leichner' ??? Gosh Mandrake--what era are you in?

Although Leichner Greasepaints are arguably still the best way to learn how to BLEND makeups--particularly in the case of character acting--when you use stage makeup--it has to be Pancake makeup these days.

And as for the other guys: A simple base pancake makeup as Max Factor Pancake No. 27 or Grimmas or my favourite No. 27--Kryolan (German make up firm) will give your face a smooth, light tanned look.
I remember putting it on both a senior & Junior mermber of the Nottingham Guild of Magicians. Like most UNinformed magicians they did no either know or understand what a LIGHT makeup can do. The senior one kept going to the mirrors looking at where his heavy shaving shadows has gone to as did the teenager who could not believe his spots had--disappeared.
The Full stage makeup with eyelines etc will rarely be used by magicians as they just do not appear in a big theatre anymore.

Finally when I was asked to repeat my first of 3 productions of Fiddler On The Roof, I had shaved off Tevye's beard. So 2 months later I used a false beard.
As we had been asked to do a 9:30AM followed by a 1:30pm Preview performance it looked like very little time for lunch.
I went to the local pub in the false beard, Tevye's Donkey Jacket & cap and in a Kryolan 27 base and NOBODY even looked at me!
It was a case of 'Do Not signal the move'.

Allen Tipton

mark lewis wrote:I think the audience will be far more likely to "inevitably notice" that the performer is not acting like a normal human being than it is to notice that he is "hding something". A man wearing make up in public does seem to me to be a trifle noticeable.

You appear to be suggesting that wearing make-up is not the behaviour of a normal human being. A trifle offensive I think, it is all the rage in London.
Do you comb your hair before you perform, or do you think that is not natural either?

Oh dear-before he says it himself:
Have you seen a pic of the legendary Mark Lewis?

He doesn't have any need to comb his hair.


And back to performers NOT wearing make up on stage.
This goes back to mistaken ideas from either young or lazy actors some years back.
Because stage lighting has so improved they thought or were told--you do not need to wear makeup.
However although PROFESSIONAL stage lighting can put colour in your face it CANNOT restore any shape flattened by strong lighting.

In the many years I lectured on Stage Makeup the opening lines were:
Why do we have to use makeup. Because stage light can drain the colour and flatten contours as cheekbones, eye hollows etc.

There was an article about 6/7 years ago in The Stage deploring the sad demise of stage makeup amongst actors.

Allen Tipton




Allen Tipton

There is a story in my memoirs as to how I was intimidated in a dressing room by two veteran entertainers putting on their make up. I was the only one in the dressing room besides those two. One of them said to the other "Nobody puts on make up any more. It doesn't even seem to be the professional thing to do nowadays"

I didn't know where to look and was overcome by embarrassment since I have never put on any make up in my life except when I have been on television.

As for people wandering around London in makeup I consider that to be the end of civilisation as we know it. Men are becoming like women and women are becoming like men.

The world is becoming a very strange place indeed. Just as well I won't be in it for much longer.

Some editing has taken place, let's keep it sweet and away from the personal please. Not everyone will agree on this topic so can we just accept that and, if we have any, offer constructive advice?

What a great post. Here bis a topic that has two extreme view and is very interesting. But what I have also seen following this post is how lucky we are on this forum. We have some very knowledgeable and experienced peole who are willing to share their experience and knowledge. Allan Tipton and Mark Lewis are just two examples of members who are wiling to help us learn and develop in a subject we love whilst not forgetting our history. Not all new methods and techniques are the best and I find it very enjoyable and intreaguing to be able to listen to the vast experience we have in this forum.

I feel we are fortunate that we have the experience in this forum that we have. It is easy for us to take for granted what we have at this forum for free and we are reminded when we have discussions likethis one.

Nic

Nic

I think we are straying from showmanship to daft discussions about makeup. Let me just say that I have been to Whitehaven and wearing make up in such a place will have this poor chap burned at the stake.

But back to the subject at hand. Unlike Allen Tipton I have always hated the Henning Nelms book beyond measure and for some reason I cannot fathom I don't like the Ken Weber book either. However, if it fits the young man and he feels drawn to it then he should follow the advice therein.

I always advise anyone who wishes to know how to present magic, particularly close up magic, properly to study assiduously the chapter at the back of Expert Card Technique which describes presentation in very great detail.

Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz is also worth a look although it seems to be a very controversial book. The author does not practice what he preaches but I don't think that matters too much. I reluctantly think I agree with 90 percent of what he says except for his advice on hecklers.

I do like the Edward Maurice book which like an idiot I lost on the subway recently. I will probably never see the book again since it went out of print about a thousand years or so ago.

But showmanship and presentation is the key to good magic. It is far more important than the tricks themselves. Tricks don't mean a thing. They just come along for the ride.

Agreed, the discussion about wearing make-up and whether or not you do or don't is a side issue.

The key to presenting a good show comes from you, your voice, your appearance, what you say and how you say it than how you present a magic trick. Are people enjoying what you say, or is it an irritating commentary on what you are doing? Are you making them laugh and entertaining them? Comedy may not be your thing, it may suit your style to engage the audience through suspense, or some people are good at presenting an element of danger or spookiness, making the audience feel uneasy. One way to gain experience of doing that is by performing for the public in other activities as well as magic. You may benefit from doing a drama course, a LAMDA Certificate or something where you can develop your voice and acting abilities - something that gives you the confidence in presenting to the public and some know how on performance technique. Good showmanship is something you can learn through other allied arts with wider opportunities, not just magic.

I know that I am a far better magic performer than when I was much younger since my showmanship and self-confidence improved since from working in the theatre, acting on stage, appearances on television and various other performances and shows and bizarre performance events I've been involved in that haven't been related to magic. I guess I've been lucky being in London, I don't know what avenues there are in your area of the country. You could try joining an amateur drama society (although it can be a bit hit and miss depending on how 'open' they are to new members, or how good they are and how professional the rest of the company acts) or look if they do any drama related courses at your local college/ adult education classes.
I think this is one tried and tested way of increasing your experience and know how of how to perform well and engage an audience, develop your voice and self-confidence, which comes through knowing how to do it and doing it.

Hope this helps


.

I know it is standard wisdom to say that to be a good magician it would be beneficial to take acting lessons or go to drama school. Although a tiny few aspects of this is worthwhile, on the whole I don't recommend it. I have never seen a good magician yet who has been to drama school. Without exception every trained actor I have seen doing magic has been absolutely dreadful. Especially that awful boring Orson Welles chap whom I used to see putting people to sleep on television doing awful mentalism.

People seem to forget that being an actor and being a magician are two different professions entirely. I believe acting comes into magic but the sort of tommyrot they teach you in drama school where you end up being overloud and artificial is a waste of time.

As for the claptrap about Robert Houdin saying that a magician is an actor pretending to be a magician it has always been taken out of context and that wasn't what he meant at all. He was taking a dig at jugglers when he said that.

I think it is far more common to see magicians pretending to be magicians but that is another story.

And of course we don't know if the wizard from Whitehaven wishes to do stand up magic or close up magic. Both types are very different from each other and require a different type of showmanship.

The common thread between them is to become an interesting CHARACTER and when you have done that you are halfway there.

Agreed, there is only so much you will gain from doing some drama lessons, some of it has no relevance. However the fundamentals, such as Voice and putting across your Character and other things you will learn such as Comedy and Timing, How To Tell A Story and Public Speaking will be of benefit. I think that if your current problem is that you appear to be "the lonely guy with no friends who's in the bar every week" then I would suggest that some of the above would be a benefit in helping you present yourself your more favourable side.

However there is a lot of wisdom in Mark Lewis's comment above that if you are genuinely an interesting character who has had plenty of adventures and varied life experiences then you will naturally be someone who people will want to gravitate towards and enjoy speaking to.

Keywords here seem to be 'Be Interesting' and 'Be Entertaining' - can't argue with that.