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If you're only performing for friends and family, that's exactly WHEN you should be working on billet techniques. They're more forgiving than a typical audience, and they can help you improve your technique.

Demitri wrote:If you're only performing for friends and family, that's exactly WHEN you should be working on billet techniques. They're more forgiving than a typical audience, and they can help you improve your technique.

You haven't met my friends and family!

Seriously though, that is a very good point. When I feel confident enough I certainly will use them first. Till then I'll have fun with my wallet (when it gets here).

More forgiving in that they'll still talk to you after you mess up... maybe

Caligari wrote:As far as I'm aware, that's the case, though you could try Merlin's of Wakefield. They carry a lot of Outlaw stuff and may have some wallets in stock.

Thanks Caligari for the info much appreciated.

Craig Browning wrote:QUESTION: Do you plan on being a "Mentalist" or a "Magician"?

CONSIDER: Mentalists don't need trick wallets, we have numerous other techniques that are far cleaner (physically & psychologically). While they may require a bit of patience and practice, they are superior to James Bond styled Mental Magic.

Magicians seem to "need" the nifty gadgets (we're addicted to such things) but at the end of the day 90% of those neat and nifty bits end up in a drawer somewhere and rarely viewed as "practical" the deeper we move into "the work". . . as we discover the value of cleanliness and simplicity and why, placing something written by another person into your own wallet creates suspicion albeit, subconsciously; it becomes a mechanism that one can back-track to when trying to figure out "how it was done". On the other hand, a skilled bit of billet work nixes such things and when done properly, leaves the patron no "out" while leaving the performer with far more freedom and flexibility -- especially when he's asked to do something and finds that the wallet isn't on hand

Maybe less codependency on devices and more application when it comes to skill, would be a bit more logical?

I've read Darwin Ortiz's Designing Miracles. There is nothing wrong with a mentalist using a wallet at all, it creates another layer for the audience to hit a dead end, its an isolation to the object. If u read the book then i think you know what i am talking bout. Also his simple addition to ID the using the wallet in my opinion helps heighten the effect. Also it has a very very open shown switch the Shodwdown wallet. Which is never a bad thing for a multiple out for mentalism.

I disagree with the suspicion part bout putting something in my wallet, with a decent presentation and reason it will fly by, and not overly repeatedly abusing the use of the wallet. The wallet is another layer it cuts off back to the method, since a spectator hardly should ever think oh that wallet has SUC, or something like that, the wallet is solid the wallet and wasnt opened is what the spectator really should think. But i really do think its a good thing to have, and is very useful for Darwin Ortiz's Designing Miracles.

Klangster1971 wrote:Why not a Stealth Assassin? Maybe I'm misunderstanding some of the terms you've used but I've certainly used it for:

1 - Switches
2- Peeks
3 - SUC (inc Swami work)

Plus there's also an OTL option thrown in too....

As I say, maybe I'm misunderstanding some of the terms but am happy to talk on PM.... and I love my Stealth Assassin!!

SAW is great, and so is Showdown. But basically I'm looking to ask if theres a hybrid wallet of the two.

Stealth Assassin
1. The switches do not compare in any way the Showdown wallet can switch. The showdown has a very very clean and openly shown switch. Then a very clean external switch which is a great bonus. I feel that sometimes openly revealing a predication is fairer at times.
2. Peeks their great i have nothing against it, hence i was thinking bout buying SAW and showdown.
3. SUC, yet again SAW's SUC is great.

Basically I want to know if a wallet similar to Showdown with a traditional SUC exist or not. Since my research has come up with that the Showdown SUC is not the traditional one.

Demitri wrote:I was a little confused, too, Klangster. The Stealth Assassin can do all of those things he mentioned. It really is a great wallet.

One other question for the original poster - why can't you use something like the outlaw pantera wallet? It's primary functions are peeks and pw/swami work - but, depending on what you're switching, you can use it to switch as well.

I would highly recommend NOT getting 2 wallets. As Craig mentioned - you're already treading on dangerous water, nothing would be more dangerous than a scenario like:

"Now, write down your thought, and slip it into my OTHER WALLET".

While I can agree with Craig to a point, I still feel there are plenty of ways to justify the use of a wallet - but I would definitely not use it more than once, and only during specific situations. I know the ad copy for these always say "an entire act in your wallet", but if you keep going back to the same prop (and it will become a prop in the eyes of the audience), you're not going to fool anyone.

Yes i could buy a Pantera instead of a SAW, and get a showdown for switches. I would not carry two wallets with me if i really need to resort in buying two wallets. Both wallets has its pros and cons. I would set up each wallet to be ready for X effect and X effect. Since once again Showdown has a great open switch.

I dont see why a spectator should really question bout what wallet i brang with me today, since they shouldn't know i have two wallets. Unless of course i do it for people thats already seen it before, that would raise suspicion.

Demitri if u have seen the external switches possible with Showdown you will know what i mean. If a spectator really suspects the wallet when i casually place a billet in top of a closed wallet, then i really don't know what to say. I think it would be natural to put it on top of a wallet if i have it sitting down already, it really shouldn't raise suspicion at all. SAW cant do this.

Yes i wouldnt abuse the use of a wallet like showdown or SAW.

I am familiar with the functions of the Showdown, and I am a long-time fan of Outlaw Effects. I know the quality of their products firsthand. I wasn't disputing that the mechanics of the wallet, just that using the wallet for 3 or more effects will, no matter how clever the apparatus, arouse suspicion. It won't be "how does he know those things?" It will become "Why does he keep putting stuff in that wallet?"

Like anything else, it has a function and it's a great tool in your arsenal - just as long as it's not the only tool, put it in your pocket and go crazy!

Ah ok i understand, and i agree

Darwin was a card magician until Mentalism became the new buzz term and cash cow of magic, so let's not go there and please stop bolding everything you type and screaming at people.

My contention against wallets lays in the same context I put the Center Tear; it's is illogical 99% of the time NO MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU USE TO JUSTIFY IT.

That said, I admit to using a SUC wallet. . . for pocket writing, not peaks! I've been known to use a gaffed wallet or two when doing my Murder Mysteries but not when carried on my person. Rather I "borrow" it either from an accomplice used in the show or a reverse Pick-Pocket bit that allows me to borrow the wallet of a fallen victim into which things are placed for safe keeping... the point is that it's not "my wallet" in the mind of the spectator and therefore they do not suspect it as being a magician's prop. . . something that is gimmicked.

While it is true, newbies don't know how to work properly with billets, it is likewise true that as long as people have a crutch around that they can justify in their own mind, it's ok to continue personal codependency on said system rather than learn the more daring and difficult techniques. . . I can't imagine how people got by back in the days before all these "gimmicks" came along. . .say 20 or so years ago

Someone once said that "Every prop you add to you act (as a mentalist) lowers your fee (perceived value & authenticity)" . . . probably came from some nobody But hey, cherry-picking what one wants to hold to and what we reject is a tradition, ask any preacher or politician.

I'm not saying that mentalists should never use gimmicks/devices, only that we are obliged to be brutally honest with ourselves as to why we select particular items and if or not said device is psychologically sound vs. it being another trendy thing we simply want because we're pack-rats and recovering magicians.

I am a pack-rat, I fully admit it. Fortunately I'm not as bad as I used to be but I still have my "need" for the neat and nifty. I've also gone through significant buyers remorse when it comes to a whole lot of J*U*N*K that's being peddled these days under the heading of "Mentalism". . . which, it would seem, now includes grand illusions given how certain folks think David Copperfield was a Mentalist

Again, some evaluation is needed alongside shifting back to the essence of what Mentalism originally represented rather than lying to ourselves and our audiences by calling a Magic Act "Mentalism".

To me the bolding was to make it easier to tell apart from the quotes since there was alot of quotes in that post. It was not to scream sorry if it seemed that way. I'll change it anyways.

Ok my thing for Darwin Ortiz isn't bout mentalism in specific, its bout how we should lead the spectator to dead ends. Also some other things he talks bout which i wont go into detail.

Yes half the reason i want a traditional SUC for a wallet is for the swami if u read over my 1st post it states i wanted a SUC for swami and peeks. But i still think a wallet creates a an extra layer for the spectator.

Yes of course i'd like to plant the wallet so it seems like its not mine. But for everyday life performances i don't get that sort of opportunity, so thats not really practical for me.

You don't use physical barriers for your mentalism, besides a SUC for swami writing? Say like a envelope, box, cup on top of a prediction, etc. These sort of physical barriers i believe heighten the magic. I feel that a wallet is a great physical barrier thats my only argument and i'll leave it at that.

Anyways back to my original post i was hoping does such a wallet exist? But at this point looks like it doesn't. But thanks for all the replies everyone.

Craig Browning wrote:Darwin was a card magician until Mentalism became the new buzz term and cash cow of magic, so let's not go there and please stop bolding everything you type and screaming at people.

My contention against wallets lays in the same context I put the Center Tear; it's is illogical 99% of the time NO MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU USE TO JUSTIFY IT.

That said, I admit to using a SUC wallet. . . for pocket writing, not peaks! I've been known to use a gaffed wallet or two when doing my Murder Mysteries but not when carried on my person. Rather I "borrow" it either from an accomplice used in the show or a reverse Pick-Pocket bit that allows me to borrow the wallet of a fallen victim into which things are placed for safe keeping... the point is that it's not "my wallet" in the mind of the spectator and therefore they do not suspect it as being a magician's prop. . . something that is gimmicked.

While it is true, newbies don't know how to work properly with billets, it is likewise true that as long as people have a crutch around that they can justify in their own mind, it's ok to continue personal codependency on said system rather than learn the more daring and difficult techniques. . . I can't imagine how people got by back in the days before all these "gimmicks" came along. . .say 20 or so years ago

Someone once said that "Every prop you add to you act (as a mentalist) lowers your fee (perceived value & authenticity)" . . . probably came from some nobody But hey, cherry-picking what one wants to hold to and what we reject is a tradition, ask any preacher or politician.

I'm not saying that mentalists should never use gimmicks/devices, only that we are obliged to be brutally honest with ourselves as to why we select particular items and if or not said device is psychologically sound vs. it being another trendy thing we simply want because we're pack-rats and recovering magicians.

I am a pack-rat, I fully admit it. Fortunately I'm not as bad as I used to be but I still have my "need" for the neat and nifty. I've also gone through significant buyers remorse when it comes to a whole lot of J*U*N*K that's being peddled these days under the heading of "Mentalism". . . which, it would seem, now includes grand illusions given how certain folks think David Copperfield was a Mentalist

Again, some evaluation is needed alongside shifting back to the essence of what Mentalism originally represented rather than lying to ourselves and our audiences by calling a Magic Act "Mentalism".

Yet again, Craig - you never seem to accept that other opinions not only exist, but are equally as valid as your own. Just because you might not have given it as much thought as the justifications/methods YOU use, doesn't mean there aren't perfectly valid ones out there.

For instance: Would it not be perfectly normal for me to have something written down on my spectator's business card - and put it in my wallet? After all, I'm taking their information for possible future business prospects. Are you trying to tell me that it's 99% illogical for me to take their card and put it in my own wallet?

Is it more logical for me to have them write something on their business card, fold it up - perform an Acidus peek - then say "on second thought - I don't even need your card", and hand it back to them?

Context is everything - and while you have your own personal aversion to the use of wallets, you need to remember (as usual) your opinion isn't law.

Docc Hilford and Bob Cassidy have used wallets in their work - and I think we can all agree they aren't just jumping on the mentalism buzz bandwagon.

I don't want to cause a fuss or appear arrogant or anything but I see Craig's opinion being 50/50 valid.

Yes when I use my mind reader wallet I do cringe as I tell them to put the information into the wallet and close it over.The reason for this is more magician's guilt than anything(I suffer terribly).So what Craig is saying certainly does make sense and you are using peek wallets at the risk of someone saying ''Why do I have to put it into your wallet?''.I'm sure this can be validated with any amount of performing skill.Still though,kind of weakens things.In this aspect I agree with Craig

The other side of the coin is validating things to the audince in the first place.Why put the card back on top of the deck before dealing it after a DL.Why place the coin under the hanky before a vanish.Why have them write something down in the first place?If you were a mind reader then quit the BS and read their bloody mind!!!

I really don't think you have to justify things as much as we think.Unless it's a strange non everyday prop.As said in another thread ''why run when your not being chased''.The thread about the centre tear for instance.It's all the over proving that is going to cause suspicion more than anything else in my oppinion.

Here's a quick video of Keith Barry using the peek wallet.When I first saw this I didn't know of peek wallets and I was bamboozled and forgot he even used a wallet by th end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsE6bPOa ... re=related

I also used a peek wallet twice in a row for one group and wasnt pulled up on it.I know I shouldn't have accepted the request but the second time I did justify it's use.

Just my oppinion.Worth as much as anyone elses me thinks

Keith Barry used a very blatent cross cut force in one of his TV shows and nobody rumbled it so if he can use such a basic move, there's no reason why others can't. Of course, Keith is more magician that mentalist but at least he's working and earning so he must be doing something right!

I think there may be a place for any prop, in any act, so long as it fits the performer.

Wallets are a funny thing, in that they tend to personal. I wouldn't just hand out my wallet to anybody. Even a police officer, would just get my license not the whole wallet. So if I'm in control at all times of what going in or out of the wallet, I don't see why, it would be suspect.

Having said all that I have to agree with Mr. Browning about it's use in mentalism. Why not just lay the card down on the table? Of course I've been enticed by many of the peekers trying to reinvent the wheel, but seem to always come back to a more heterogeneous method.

That's what works for me anyway.

Mandrake,I'd love to see this cross cut force

Anyways just wanted to let you guys know i already purchased SAW just before. Also most probably getting Showdown, since a wallet like the one i wanted doesn't seem to exist . Thanks alot for the feedback.

Flood wrote:Mandrake,I'd love to see this cross cut force

I was lucky, it was in his shows for Irish TV that were shown in the UK on one of the Sky channels. I was always out on those occasions but I recorded them so when I saw what looked like the CC I was able to rewind and watch over and over. On first viewing it was a good 5 or 10 seconds before the penny dropped and I realised what he'd done but even after viewing several times it still looked so innocent. Proof, if it were ever needed , that Keith is a skilled performer. In the same series of shows he also did the borrowed coin in a ball of wool thing which must have been in all basic magic books for centuries (definitely in Peter Eldin's Pocket Book of Magic which is on my desk right now!) yet he used a different presentation to make it fresh as well as magical.