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Hi guys, just joined the forum today after a few months of viewing. I have started working on the royal road to card magic and been practising numerous sleights, flourishes etc. However, apart from the ambitious card routine not that impressed with any of the tricks in the book. Does anyone know of any other books which have some impressive and professional tricks I can learn to master? My aim is to know 3-4 really good tricks I can do well as opposed to loads I can't. I am particulary interested in Derren Browns three card routine (ambitious of a nebie I know). Does anyone know if his method is about anywhere? Saw the vid on youtube and I like the continuous effects in that particular performance. Im looking to learn something similar to this. Any ideas guys?

It's on a DVD called The Devil's Picturebook, available from his website. I would be wary of attempting some of those tricks though if you're just starting out; Derren's card skills are very good, and even when you know how the trick is done that doesn't mean you'll be able to perform it like Derren. That's my experience of it anyway, as I'm fairly new to card magic too. Nevertheless, that's where to find it.

Hello Ben,

Welcome to TM

If you wish to persue card magic I can only suggest two things:

i) DITCH ROYAL ROAD. It's stuffy, old and outdated;
ii) Buy Card College (Roberto Giobbi) Volume 1. Work through the material in vol. 1 BEFORE buying Vol 2. If you wish to continue, only buy one volume at a time. With these books you will develop a solid foundation in the most up-to-date techniques. Along the way you will be shown practical and strong card magic.

As far as DB's 3 card routine, you'll have to put in some work over the coming months to master the many sleights and techniques that are used in that routine, before even beginning to think of tackling it. AFAIK DB used to sell the routine on DVD, but no longer does (someone else chime in here if I'm wrong pls!).

Thanks guys most helpful. SpareJoker I will look at card college. Although the royal road has been good for introductio to shuffles and sleights etc I had found it quite outdated. This is exactly why I joined the forum as sharing experience and advice is beneficial to all.

Derren Brown's instructional DVD is still available from his website, in the magician's only area.

SpareJoker wrote:DITCH ROYAL ROAD. It's stuffy, old and outdated;

Thats like saying Corinda is out of date!

There are plenty of fantastic tricks in RRTCM, you just need to add a bit of pizzaz!

I agree that some of the patter in RRTCM is a little dated, but the sleights/methods etc......are still as relevant today as they were 1000 years ago (or whenever the book was originally published).

Its not the effects that are outdated its just some of the presentations. If you come up with your own spin on the effects you will have, basically, a new trick. I dont mean to burst any bubbles here but its not the tricks that are professional, it is the manner in which they are performed. Even a simple ''self worker'' can be a great piece if performed well.

Derrens 3 Card Routine is basically a series of controls and revelations of the chosen cards. If you know some reveals and controls you can put together yoiur own routine

jim

cartorious wrote:I agree that some of the patter in RRTCM is a little dated, but the sleights/methods etc......are still as relevant today as they were 1000 years ago (or whenever the book was originally published).

True, it's good as far as it goes. It just misses out all the advancements/ developments of the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, etc. (e.g. Jordan/ Elmsley count, arguably one of the most imporant tools of 20th Century card magic).

jim ferguson wrote:Its not the effects that are outdated its just some of the presentations. If you come up with your own spin on the effects you will have, basically, a new trick.

The effects are OK (at best). The methods used to achieve those effects are outdated. I woudl even go as far as to say that some of the effects are poorly designed (e.g. technique used during the 'critical' interval).

jim ferguson wrote:I dont mean to burst any bubbles here but its not the tricks that are professional, it is the manner in which they are performed. Even a simple ''self worker'' can be a great piece if performed well

I hear what you are saying, but sometimes a turd cannot be polished.

I firmly believe that if two people were to spend the same amount of time studying the books (RRCTM and CC), the CC reader would be the better magi (all other things being equal).

I have never heard such rubbish in my life. 50% of my repertoire to this day comes from the Royal Road to Card Magic and it would be very hard to top the reaction I get out of my card magic.

There is no such thing as "dated". The layman has never seen the trick before, so how the hell can it be "dated"? With regards to the patter I use a lot of it but in any event the patter in the book is only meant as a guideline and that is pointed out by the authors. If you have any sense you alter things to suit yourself and devise your own patter.

In any event using things like Elmsley counts is something that should be done sparingly and only for certain tricks as a lot of these moves have something fishy about them and a laymen starts to think "I don't know what he did but he did something"

Some of the greatest card tricks of all time are in the Royal Road. They are described well but learning is a two way thing. You have to have a good teacher which the Royal Road is. However, you also have to have a good student with I strongly suspect is not the case here.

mark lewis wrote:I have never heard such rubbish in my life. 50% of my repertoire to this day comes from the Royal Road to Card Magic and it would be very hard to top the reaction I get out of my card magic.

I would humbly suggest that you expand your repetoire. There is definitely stronger card magic to be performed (e.g. Darwin Ortiz)

mark lewis wrote:In any event using things like Elmsley counts is something that should be done sparingly and only for certain tricks as a lot of these moves have something fishy about them and a laymen starts to think "I don't know what he did but he did something"

I have performed routines that make repeated use of false counts. Very rarely have they been spotted. A difference of technique, perhaps?

mark lewis wrote:However, you also have to have a good student with I strongly suspect is not the case here.

No need for the ad hominem attack old boy, were just having a discussion here.

I really like Royal Road but it can be tricky to follow but the routines and methods in there are good. If you find the effects outdated then see if you can think up some new and interesting presentations for them. Remember that 90% magic isn't about the effect or the method but rather the presentation.

Seems I have started a debate here on the RRTCM. I have been advised to look at Card College. Any advances on that?

Mark Wilson's Complete Course, if you've not already got it. A very good book, covering all sorts of different areas of magic and very easy to follow too.

I do have that thanks. Seems everyone starts from the same books!