talkmagic.co.uk

Excellent post

Hi Stacy.
There has been a lot of negative stuff written (and Jon Kent has come across as a moron of gigantic proportions). I will ignore the negativity and just address my ideas on image.

Magic is chiefly about entertainment (unless you are an amateur nerd or a close-up performer). For entertainment of any type, image is vital.

But image does not have to be young and sexy. You have to have a likeability factor, and that can be anything. It can be an engaging smile, an easy manner, a sense of humour. Fay Presto is a great example. She is no longer young, and she doesn't have supermodel looks. But she is very likeable and has a great sense of humour. So people love her and they rebook her.

You need to look at what makes you likable. It surprised me when I began. I assumed I would do big stuff - the boxes, the escapes. I was a physical guy, and assumed I could pull off the suave image. I was wrong. It was the small stuff that worked for me, and the gags. So I went that way, and am now virtually propless. I am twenty years older now, and six stone heavier. I will never get the TV break (fat guys don't) but I constantly get rebooked. Find out what audiences like about you and work on that.

In terms of costume, you have two ways of going. You can dress as yourself, but better. Or you can develope a character. It depends on what way you want to push your act. If you play yourself then suggestions such as dressing in drag will not work. But if you play a character they could be worth exploring.

The bottom line is that anything will work, but only if you have an inner confidence and belief in yourself. Look at comedians - there are several young, attractive female comedians. Then there is Jo Brand. And she's more successful than they are. What about Victoria Woods - pure genius, but not size four.

You can carve out a niche for yourself in professional magic if you want to. But the only way it will work is on your terms. Audiences will respond to far more than you would imagine. Find your image and make them like that, rather than trying to find an image that you think they want. Best of luck with it.

I gave my views and then stayed out of the onslaught afterwards, but I must say that this:

TonyB wrote:Magic is chiefly about entertainment (unless you are an amateur nerd or a close-up performer).

Really made me laugh out loud! Tony you crack me up!

Oh gawd the internet is like some sort of magnifying glass isn't it?

Through other people's posts it seems I've gone from not being able to pull of a showgirl outfit to having serious self esteem problems, by expressing a personal fear to show why others may feel intimidated I've been said to have a paranoid 'poor me' attitude, and when I tried to explain that this wasn't really about me, my statement that I was just trying to help has transformed me into a crusader!

The internet is great!

If I didn't enjoy being belittled and stereotyped this would be really depressing. What's even better is that all my attempts at humour (such as my sarcastic statement saying one commenter had all my best interests at heart) get taken at face value!

I don't think there's anything I can say at this point that will rescue my reputation in the eyes of those who now think I'm a feminazi whiner, but given that I'm about to go on holiday and will be away from this forum for nearly a fortnight (and as such will miss out on any more additions to this thread) I feel like I ought to thank people for contributing to it.

I'd like to thank those who agreed with me more than those who didn't, but ultimately I think I'd like to mostly thank those whom, regardless of their opinion on the matter, managed to state their case without insulting me.

Even though this thread wasn't really supposed to be about getting advice on my own presentation, I did like VE Day's suggestion regarding character. The drag thing I still don't quite get but it's a big world out there and someone in it can probably make that work for them. The thing about re-enactment vs burlesque... um... there's a lot of history out there to re-enact, and only a little bit of it had corsets. Julie Carpenter (link posted earlier) does a cabaret act in WWII style. That's awesome. I mean that's really awesome, it's absolute genius, I wish I could think of something that clever.

With the rather eclectic circle of friends I keep, I think I can quite accurately state that magicians who have had sex changes didn't do it to enhance their acts. Issues like that go way deeper. WAAAAAY deeper. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not so desperately unhappy with myself that I feel the need to make any big changes. Lets leave that there.

It is interesting that some people mentioned a tendency for low self esteem to drive people into magic (lots of alone time practicing in front of a mirror), whilst simultaneously without a decent degree of self esteem, one can never break out and become a public performer. That's probably enough of a subject to warrant it's own thread but you know what, I don't think I want to be the one to bring it up. I get the impression that despite the frequent assertions that magic is as much about personality and presentation as it is about prestidigitation, posts about the personal side of magic as opposed to the mechanics can get quite contentious quite quickly, with all the finger pointing that entails.

So long story short, I'm going on a narrowboat holiday, everyone's entitled to their opinions, you're all awesome, please don't ban me while I'm away.

Ciao.

-Stacy

The4thCircle wrote:
The drag thing I still don't quite get

Well its a bit like this (http://www.manchesterpride.com/gallery/2011/dragking?page=1&pic=) but your character also does magic and tells jokes about the worst aspects of male behaviour while strutting about like a man.

Infact I'm sure you can find some hilarious examples of some silly testosterone fueled behaviour on this very forum that you can take the mickey out of.

V.E. Day wrote:

The4thCircle wrote:
The drag thing I still don't quite get

Well its a bit like this (http://www.manchesterpride.com/gallery/2011/dragking?page=1&pic=) but your character also does magic and tells jokes about the worst aspects of male behaviour while strutting about like a man.

Actually on closer inspection, take a look at the dragking hosting the event in the above weblink (http://www.manchesterpride.com/gallery/2011/dragking?page=1&pic=17) - all he needs is a magic wand or pack of playing cards in his hands and he'd look 100percent like a magician.

I wasn't actually going to reply to this thread, I was going to rise above it and try and practice my new "Zen" approach to life, but boy is it difficult, but I'm sure when anyone is accused of the narrow minded crimes such as racism, sexism, or homophobia if its not true they would find it equally difficult to ignore

So what is basically a very thinly veiled attacked on myself I will take the bait (my wife saw I was upset last night and told me to sleep on it)

So here we go, yes 4th Circle, I made an innocent comment to a new female forum member about "using the fact she's female to her advantage", I've tried 100 ways to try and translate that comment as "yeah get your tits out, show some leg" etc

You then say when you asked me to explain my comment I didn't, really? Because if you weren't so self obsessed and read my next post I DID explain what I meant, I meant it as in, with so many male performers and a male dominated environment a female performer is a breath of fresh air

Why is magic so male dominated? I don't really know, lots of things in life are, football is a big passion of mine, and I have been going since I was 5, now over 25 years later when I go I see more females than ever, and I think its great, I wish more people of both genders could appreciate the beautiful game. Have I EVER heard women insulted at football and told they shouldn't be there? No.

I'm not sure where you get off in accusing people of being sexist, and whilst I know there are stats out there that still maintain that males in more than females in similar roles, I think the stats also say that the gap is getting smaller.

This is also good new imo, am I sexist? Doubt I would be as close to my Mum and sisters and have such a great relationship with my wife if I was, I also have a large female circle of friends who I'm pretty sure wouldn't put up with a sexist attitude

I can't stand any form of prejudice in life, I'll bore you one day with when my now best friend Nana, came from Ghana on his first day at our school...still have the scars to show

So are we all clear? I hate any form of prejudice as imo, it makes someone narrow minded and stupid. And I hate bullying, and I would be the first to stand up for you if anyone was heckling you or talking about any "weight issues", "homophobia" or "your looks"

I hope this matter is now cleared up and I can only apologise for the rant...

TonyB wrote:(and Jon Kent has come across as a moron of gigantic proportions)

In the time ive been reading this forum id already realised you was probably the biggest knob on here (nearly every post you make is holyier than thou and im better than you, your wrong im right end of) basically you suffer from the disease that some magicians have of being a self righteous self important old man and im sure you dont have alot of fans on here.

Normally i wouldnt have commented on this thread as arguing wiith a$$holes is my day job so i dont wanna do it at home but i wasnt gonna have a friend used as a example and embarrassed wrongly.

I look forward to your witty reply

V.E. Day wrote:Actually on closer inspection, take a look at the dragking hosting the event in the above weblink (http://www.manchesterpride.com/gallery/2011/dragking?page=1&pic=17) - all he needs is a magic wand or pack of playing cards in his hands and he'd look 100percent like a magician.

I think that would be a remarkable character and I'm not sure I've seen it done before.

jon_kent wrote:I look forward to your witty reply

You'll be waiting. Arguing with you would be like taking a machine gun to a fly.

TonyB wrote:

jon_kent wrote:I look forward to your witty reply

You'll be waiting. Arguing with you would be like taking a machine gun to a fly.

That would actually be tougher than what it sounds...unless it was a small area!

Although it did make me think of the opening scene from Once Upon a time in the West, which is always good

Lets not lower the tone anymore guys, for what its worth Tony, Jon was merely sticking up for an attack on me, and given I've never met the guy, that was a really nice gesture I thought.

I don't think these personal attacks are necessary and from what I can make out, the vast majority of this forum are good people and a fantastic source of knowledge for someone new to the game like myself

Peace and love guys

xx

An actual fly, or Seth Brundle who became The Fly? Because a gun on him would do the trick if you shot him enough.

Good point Rawlings!!

My mind was only working on one level...

Alot of the male chestbeating on this thread does appear to be coming from the flies, and that general area.

TonyB wrote:You'll be waiting. Arguing with you would be like taking a machine gun to a fly.

Lol you'd need a machine gun to take out a fly as well tony by the look of you.

Cheers Alfred

The fly the film that put me off arm wrestling since i was a kid lol