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Hey!

Me again, now before I explain this I must stress that I am not sure if an effect simular already exsists (hence for part of this thread). I recently watched Alex Elmsly perform the colour change farro shuffle, ever being the optimist I studied the effect closely. You maybe wondering why on earth does this have anything to do with the cups and balls? Well, I have been working on (for many months) a new cups and balls routine. A routine that uses a simular idea that every time I perform each section, the balls change colour with no apparent switching that is visable. I have devised some methods and have put it into practise with very good response.

My question is there an effect simular to this already in exsistance and is it worth pursuing?

Sorry if it has wasted your time.

James.

The standard theory of the cups and balls (as I understand it) is that the structure is similar to that of a joke. The small ball portion with the vanishes and the reappearances is the setup and the final change into something alive/drastically different/unreasonably large is the punchline. This is why it's best to pace the initial portion just right so that the final loads occur right before the small-ball effects get tedious. Some master magicians have debated whether or not the importance of the final load is the size or the change. I think both, along with having an element of absurdity and surprise, helps make the punchline strong.

That said, I am not familiar with any routines in which the balls change color during the small ball portion. However, I think it may deviate the feel of the trick a bit from the norm. My advice would be to try the routine out various ways until you feel you're getting the response you want. If your method of changing the objects can be applied to the final load, you may be onto a very deceptive finale. But again, try it out various ways in front of lay people. They'll tell you if it's worth pursuing or not a lot better than magicians on a forum.

Thank you. I agree with what you are saying especially about lay people. I just thought it might be cool to change the colours of the small balls leading up to the final load just as Elmsly did during his changing farro shuffle trick. For example, to start with blue balls, then for the next part of the routine secretly switch to red balls, then for the next part secretly switch to yellow balls. I liked the whole idea of mid way through the routine laymen start to think " hang on, I swear they were red?!" but to not make a big deal out of it, then leading up to the final load to produce i.e fruit or larger balls etc....

I am not to sure, i'll see how it goes but I am always skeptical of taking credit for an idea that may already be in exsistance.

Thank you for your lovely response.

I wonder if changing the colours would introduce a couple of unwanted things to the spectator's view of the effect.

1> The idea that there are extra balls in play.
2> The idea that some switching is going on.

If so, I think point 1 may weaken the first (small ball) phases and point 2 may weaken the impact of the final loads.

Food for thought anyway, though as someone who always enjoys to see variations on the cups and balls I would be interested to see a colour changing version just in case it did work well, but my gut feeling is that it may take away from the effect. Obviously a lot depends on presentation though, and as a relative newcomer to the art, I really can't comment on that.

The main flaw I see with this is that from the audience's perspective, the trick is about three balls that keep on appearing and disappearing from under three cups. Of course we all know that the method behind it involves a different number of balls but that fact is kept hidden from the audience by only ever letting them see three at most. If you start introducing different coloured balls into it, then the thought will enter the spectators mind that they're not the same balls that disappear from you hand and appear under the cups and gives the game away to early in the routine.

As sleightlycrazy said, the final loads are like the punchline to it and if the balls change colour during the routine, you run the risk of lessening the impact of the ending. you could make it work it they change colour and then straight away after that you reveal that they've also changed to your final loads sort of giving it a double ending but if you have the colour change midway through it you run the risk of taking away the surprise at the end when the balls change into something else.

[quote="BigShot"]I wonder if changing the colours would introduce a couple of unwanted things to the spectator's view of the effect.

1> The idea that there are extra balls in play.
2> The idea that some switching is going on.

A very good point! Whilst I absolutely agree with the effect I think that the version I am going for is just the entertainment value not the all out fooler. Whilst you are right it will detract from effect some what as the audience may pick up that switching is going on. I am trying to perfect the sleights so that when the audience does realize the balls have changed colour, they are perplexed with how as they can't remember seeing a switch. I think that will add something beautiful to the effect. I wont say "oh look how the balls have changed colour" but like I said, its just a theory I am working towards. I have been for very months!

I enjoy the cups and balls and I am experimenting with lots of ideas and I have been known to be wrong a lot, but thats the fun of it I guess, experimenting to see what works and what does not work.

Thank you for your input! It is appreciated!

I don't do cups and balls so don't know what the usual reaction is like, however, I would assume that the layperson does not actually think you are making balls appear out of thin air or penetrate solid cups, they know there's a trick involved but they don't know if you're switching balls, adding balls, palming balls etc. so initially I thought that the changing the colour of the balls would just be adding more to the trick as they will be none the wiser how it was done...

But I imagine you have to be careful how you do it, for example if a ball has disappeared from one cup and re-appeared under another but it's now turned blue, that would not look like the ball had changed colour, but simply there was always a different ball over there, whereas if the spec "knows" there's a yellow ball under a cup and you reveal it is now red then that would get an "ooooh"

So in summary, I don't know.

JabJay wrote:Hey!

Me again, now before I explain this I must stress that I am not sure if an effect simular already exsists (hence for part of this thread). I recently watched Alex Elmsly perform the colour change farro shuffle, ever being the optimist I studied the effect closely. You maybe wondering why on earth does this have anything to do with the cups and balls? Well, I have been working on (for many months) a new cups and balls routine. A routine that uses a simular idea that every time I perform each section, the balls change colour with no apparent switching that is visable. I have devised some methods and have put it into practise with very good response.

My question is there an effect simular to this already in exsistance and is it worth pursuing?

Sorry if it has wasted your time.

James.

Cheack out Kent Gunn's cups and balls routine. He uses 3 different coloured balls.

Cheack out Kent Gunn's cups and balls routine. He uses 3 different coloured balls.[/quote]


Oh thank you very much!

Hi,
I think the concept is interesting, however, I do think the "essence" of the trick is the focus on the movement, not the colours.
I did play around for a while with the concept of starting with nothing, and working upto 3 balls, however, it was not long-lived, as it just did not "feel" right. Perhaps that was just my inexperience?
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Bruce

I'm sure theres a routine for a chop cup that follows the basic routine but adds a colur change by saying maybey your not following the red ball so we'll try with a white one, still not following ok a blue one then, ending with a biog red,white and blue ball, not shure the name of it though may have been patriotiic balls.

Hello everyone!

Thank you for all your advice and lovely responses, I will keep you all posted with developments! Some really good ideas and responses so thank you!

Hello everyone!

Thank you for all your advice and lovely responses, I will keep you all posted with developments! Some really good ideas and responses so thank you!

I think, like many, that introducing a colour change is like shouting out that you are using extra balls.
I used to do a routine with four marbles that appeared and disappeared under my hands. I always used solid white marbles. Once I introduced a black marble. The reaction was immediate - people knew that there were more than four marbles. The impact of the effect diminished down to nothing, and I never tried that again. There's a lesson there, I believe.

I think this would add confusion to the effect, a bit too much going on. You'd also have to be very careful WHEN the balls are seen to change, if done at the wrong time the spectators may not understand the actuall EFFECT. For instance, say you make a red ball vanish and lift a cup to show a blue ball. Has the red ball moved invisibly from your hand to the cup, then changed colour - same ball, different colour ? Or has the red ball vanished altogether to be replaced by an appearing blue ball ?

Also, a while ago I posted a link to a set of rules for magic by Maskeylen (sp?) and Devant. One of the rules is that two magical effects shouldnt happen at the same time. In the above scenario the audience are seeing that the ball has both appeared AND changed colour at the same time. Unless you are very clear about what the actual effect is it can be confusing.

The Cups and Balls should seem very simple and easy to follow from the spectators perspective.

Im not saying your idea wont work, just that care must be taken so that the effect is clear in the minds of the audience.

jim