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Hi,

I need to force the top card of the deck but must leave the bottom 16 cards in place (so asking for them to cut the pack could be dangerous)- apart from the 'slip force' are there others I could look up?

Thanks

Riffle or cross cut would work wouldn't they?

Are you thinking that a "deeper" force might cause problems?

Just off the top of my head, I'd say the count down force (sorry, I don't know if there's a correct name for this). You must know it - get them to name a number between about 10 and 20. Ask them to count down to the card that is at the chosen number. Show them how you want them to do it, so that they keep the cards neat and make sure they don't take too many cards (or whatever pretext you require - I don't usually bother), then give the cards to them.

That one was what Alan Alan suggested I use (I knew it already, but as it was good enough for him, I think it's good enough).

I was also going to suggest the cross-cut force, but this might be ruled out by the structure of the routine.

Both very simple, admittedly, but both do exactly what you want.

Slip cut the top card into the middle and riffle force it, or classic force it...or use a psychological stop force...or use the underspread cull force....or use the criss cross force...or use the dribble force...most of these don't affect the order whatsoever if you give them a little thought and modification.

I don't want them to handle the deck otherwise the bottom section of cards may be revealed so the cross cut is risky (one could manage this by saying "cut a little way down" but it then seems very managed/suspicious).

The countdown force could work.

The 'slip force' with 'riffle force' works but I can't do it too well having small hands (the trick/gimmicks use poker size cards otherwise I'd go slimmer).

The cut deeper force also relies on them touching the deck - the cards need to remain neat throughout and I can't guarantee that, if they take the deck.

The 'classic force' is way above my pay grade unfortunately!

With the cross cut force just use it to force the top card and whilst they are remembering the card reform the deck into its original order, perfect for your needs. Hindu shuffle force will do it too. I think you are over thinking it!

TBH I'd riffle force having done a swing cut to prepare.

Move the top card to the center of the deck and use a classic force?

The 'classic force' is way above my pay grade unfortunately!
Did you really mean that? The real way to become expert with the classic force is first read the instructions and ,when you feel you really understand the method, use it every time you ask somebody to take a card when you don't need a force! You will be surprised how soon they always take the card.
Please try it. You will be glad you did.

Whit Haydn teaches a routine that uses a different handling of the Classic Force, but also the fact that IF the force misses, the routine still works like a miracle no matter what.

Don't forget that if you must know the card,and the classic force misses and you must know the card, you still have a key card1

Surely the point is that bradderz123 cannot do the trick he wants if the classic force misses. If you are happy to do another card trick after the attempt at the force, then that's a good way to learn, but I think he wants a force he can do now, to go with the trick he actually wants to do.

Also, and I might be getting this wrong, I suspect that this particular trick requires some or all of the bottom cards to be face up or have different backs (my guess is the former). That is why even something like the cross cut force is risky. I'd just tell the spectator to cut somewhere in the middle of the pack, possibly prefaced by a comment that when people cut only a few cards off, or only leave a few, they think that I can count the cards and work out what's been taken. Good participant choice and audience controls skills are very useful here!

If I am right about the reason for the stack, I think that the cross cut force is actually ideal, as it provides a great opportunity to do "the move" and will allow you to show the bottom of the reassembled pack more freely.

Part-Timer,
I was not trying to answer the full problem that bradderz123 has expressed. Merely that as he considers the classic force " above his pay grade". I suggested an easy way to rectify his situation regarding a particular skill.

It wasn't really aimed at you, sir. It's just that we'd had four different people talking about a force that (if I am right) was never really an option. I suspect the "pay grade" thing was just a quick way to say no without discussing the set-up. Or I might be completely wrong in my assumption of what the bottom stack is for!

Your advice was very useful, should bradderz123 want to learn the CF at some point, though. The key card idea is particularly good.

Randy wrote:Whit Haydn teaches a routine that uses a different handling of the Classic Force, but also the fact that IF the force misses, the routine still works like a miracle no matter what.

The Chicago Surprise. High recommended at any time but especially if you want to learn/practice your classic force.