talkmagic.co.uk

Hi guys. This documentary was made by a young Irish documentary maker. He interviewed a medium, a sceptic (magician Paul Zenon) and asked me to create a spooky event at the infamous Hellfire Club in the Dublin mountains. Hope some of you enjoy it. It is worth a watch.
http://youtu.be/6sfCPclo0VM

I enjoyed this. I get a little but bored of the psychic bashing, but was good to see the view points. Mostly enjoyed getting to see Tony at work...

Also seeing the routine he did actually bring performed was brilliant.

Thanks. It was a fun project to be involved with. The routine I did was from Paul Voodini. Love his stuff.

TonyB wrote:Thanks. It was a fun project to be involved with. The routine I did was from Paul Voodini. Love his stuff.

Yeah, I caved in and bought the relevant book a while ago. Never been able to see it performed though, was good.

I can never decide how I feel about Zenon though. Sometimes I think he's brilliant, other times he gets on my nerves...

I agree about Zenon. I didn't get to meet him. The documentary was shot in bits, and I was only involved in one bit.

I am not a fan of Zenon either. Especially when he doesn't shave. The trouble is with all these psychic debunkers is that they have no idea what they are talking about. If you are going to debunk at least use the correct methods. These people are what are called in the grafting business "half wide mugs". That is that they know a little of what goes on and because of that little they think they know everything when in fact their knowledge is woefully inadequate. I told Banacek that he was a "half wide mug" but for some odd reason that I cannot fathom he did not agree with me.

I am always amused that sceptics claim to be experts in things they haven't studied. They admit they have no knowledge of palmistry, tarot and the divinatory arts and yet they debunk. If you haven't studied something then you are in no position to say something is false. How can you if you know nothing about it? And these over zealous sceptics know nothing about the subject. It would be nice if they would study up on it.

I have never come across a sceptic who knows what he is talking about. Yep. Half wide mugs.

I like that!

You sound like a believer in psychic phenomenon Mark?

A decent grounding in the laws of Chemistry and Physics would put you back on the right path.

I can assure you that I AM on the right path. I am MARK LEWIS after all. I am an expert on these matters and it would behoove you to bow down to superior knowledge in this particular field. Furthermore you are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. You mention "psychic phenomenon" but you have not defined what you mean by this term. I do not recall saying one word about "psychic phenomenon" in my post. I cannot comment on whether I believe in it until you inform me what you mean by "it"

As for chemistry and physics that is the province of scientists and all those daft debunkers keep insisting that scientists are the worst ones for commenting on these matters. It seems they think that scientists keep getting it wrong. I am NEVER wrong so you really must accept my word as gospel in these matters. As a result of Randi himself saying that scientists are not experts in what is real or not real I see absolutely no point in learning physics and chemistry. Besides I hated it at school and have no need to delve into these horrible matters. If you wish to amuse yourself with atoms and molecules by all means do so.

I am however, an expert in palmistry, tarot and the divinatory arts. You obviously aren't. And neither are physics and chemistry professors. Therefore it is MY opinion on these matters that should be taken note of.

Now do try harder, there's a good chap.

Oh dear Mark, seemed to touch a nerve there.
The laws of Chemistry and Physics define the universe and how things within it work.
These laws are founded on observation, experimentation, and verification.

And speaking of bowing to superior knowledge

BScPhdCChemMRSC

I don't think we are going to agree on this, so you keep your head in the clouds, and I shall work in the real world.

Whilst we encourage active debate, there's really no point in trying to undermine the opinions of others with put downs and dismissive remarks. Far better to put the differing view positively and thus demonstrate why this is felt to be better. In short, rather than just tell someone they are wrong, put forward a positive discussion as to why someone else is right.

Lownatic. I deal with metaphysics rather than physics. My superior knowledge is in that realm rather than your realm. Please note that I said in my post "superior knowledge in THIS field". And I was not talking about chemistry which has nothing whatsover to do with the subject. I also have letters after my name too you know. I am an ordained minister of the Spiritualist Church of Canada and a very holy person indeed. Do call me Reverend Lewis in future.

But perhaps you can explain to me what on earth chemistry has to do with the spiritual realm? I concede that it might have something to do with Biblical references to turning water into wine but has nothing whatsoever to do with Tarot Cards and Palmistry. There is something known as the Line of Mercury in palmistry but I really do not consider that sufficient.

And you still haven't defined what on earth you mean by "psychic phenomena". I don't see anywhere in my post that I believed in or used the term in question. I cannot tell you if I believe in it or not until you explain what you mean by the term. I shall expect your definition in due course.

Discussions like this are in essence fruitless for the following reason:=
Scientists "believe" that the laws of Chemistry and Physics as they stand are the best way to describe the Universe as we experience it.
However, if new observations and experiments that can be repeated and verified show that alterations to those laws may provide a better explanation of the Universe in which we live, then we adjust them. These laws have been refined like this for centuries.

The problem is that religious people and "Spiritual" people (in the main) KNOW that they are right, and everyone else is wrong.
Trying to argue logically with such people is pointless as it is impossible to prove a negative. How is it possible to prove God does not exist? You cannot, - science would say what is the case for inventing one in the first place.

So I would be wasting my time trying to guide you towards a more logical view of the world and surrounding cosmos.
As long as you are happy that's fine by me.

By the way, you can call me Dr Lown.

The problem is that religious people and "Spiritual" people (in the main) KNOW that they are right, and everyone else is wrong.

That's one hell of a sweeping statement and one which I suggest has no evidence in support.

The reverse is equally true, many engineers of my acquaintance have had their heads in the sand over certain processes and took a long time to learn that not everything they knew was fixed in stone.

As I said above, if there is a solid and convincing argument in favour of a point of view then that's what should be presented. Why is it that those who say they have no belief or faith seem duty bound to deride and belittle those who do? Why do magicians seem to think they have a duty to 'expose' psychics?

I’m very firmly in the middle here, I have had a lengthy education in the sciences and spent my almost 50 year working life in engineering, metal bashing and designing systems which were mainly governed by the laws of physics – pressure, flow, heat and so on. As such I have a healthy respect for such laws and know that to assume they don’t apply is a certain invitation to disaster.

However that doesn’t mean I can categorically state that physical laws are the only ones, to do so would be not only be presumptuous but quite stupid. Having designed systems for use by the MOD in the UK I was asked to do the same for a project in Africa which was similarly ‘sensitive’. The first thing I learned is that the UK way isn’t the only way and obeying all the laws of physics is only part of the process. Local traditions and beliefs had to be factored in otherwise the project would be just a huge pile of scrap metal. Apart from having to bear in mind that much of the project was, at the time, somewhat restricted, the whole thing had to involve local tribesmen, their blessings, customs and traditions being essential to the success.

Many would mock the local involvement as mumbo jumbo but only from a great distance, at local level it was all very important.

The sad fact is that on TM as well as other boards, discussions which relate to belief and faiths usually go off track rapidly with some posts indicating a lack of true respect for other people’s feelings. Let’s have strongly differing opinions by all means but expressed in a polite and courteous way. The alternative is yet another potentially educative and useful thread has to be locked.