talkmagic.co.uk

Jags, you are taking my comments completely the wrong way. So far you have provided people with half a suggestion. It's all well and good saying "go out and try this" but the problem is that the idea you provided has a high potential of going wrong. Therefore, it would be nice if you included how you would get out of this potentially tricky situation if the spectator says something other than what you want.

To relate this back to the original point of this thread, if you give the spectator a choice or an option, however basic or complex it may be, your routine must be able to cope with every eventuality. Therefore you must be prepared for every eventuality. Again, a fundamental part of good routining.

Also, for what it's worth, I think that you're solution of bypassing their response (ie ignoring what they say) is the wrong way of dealing with this situation. If you ask the spectator what would really impress them, and then don't do it, you will weaken the effect. David Blaine's presentation of this effect is a very good way of doing it and I would suggest tailoring that presentation to fit yourself. Adding other elements such as this is treading on dangerous ground, and would require very good judgement of the audience to pull off effectively. That is not to say you do not have good judgement, but these are factors that should be made clear when making suggestions to other magicians.

nickj wrote:I would suggest that you are being a bit harsh here and assuming that Jags can't judge his audience. Of course if you have that guy in you audience you wouldn't use the trick that way. That said, it is perhaps inadvisable to use this presentation in your first effect, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work a good proportion of the time and really wouldn't be that difficult to get out of and get an extra laugh (if you play it that way).

Cheers Nick

Guys of course i wouldnt use this trick by it self. I would do other things to blow their minds away as well.

If the spectator does ask for an elephant then of course we have a problem. but of course we need to judge the audience first. i wouldnt use this trick on someone who will show me up, i'll just leave it in the pocket

now if they say, different cards then great. if they say something ridicilous then of course we are scr***d. but shouldnt we be able to use our own imagination to think of something funny, then tell them to turn the cards over..

i quote what David Blaine said just before he asked them to turn the cards.. he said "would it suprise you if the heart was on this side and the diamond on this side, or the diamond on this side and the heart on this side" and i think he also said "what would really suprise you" (dont quote me on this i will need to check), and then of course they turn them over and hey presto!!.. for me this means he gave them the open question

but anyway try it on a friend and see how it goes, think of something to use of course if they say an "elephant"


Jags

pdjamez wrote:oh, dangerous, what if they say something else? Like turn the ace into an elephant.

You are clearly forgetting that Bicycle released a special edition Elephant Deck ... problem solved!

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/f8/d1/61_1_b.JPG

Rob

Rob your a genius thanks for getting me out of this one lol

ha ha ha fantastic matey couldnt think of this one i like it mate, it has really me me giggle,

guys my back up has arrived...lol


Jags

That a funny idea Rob, kudos.

Imagine if you could actually do that. How fantastic would that be? Jags, you should keep an elephant deck just in case one of your awkward customers does randomly shout out "elephant". That would really blow them away. lol

Nickj wrote:

Statistics are even worse. Most people have more than the average number of legs.

Dat8962 wrote:

did you know that 8 out of 6 people don't understand fractions?

I'm sorry, I cannot accept these statements because I read on a website that 95% of all statistics on the internet are untrue.

GoldFish wrote:To relate this back to the original point of this thread, if you give the spectator a choice or an option, however basic or complex it may be, your routine must be able to cope with every eventuality. Therefore you must be prepared for every eventuality. Again, a fundamental part of good routining.

this was not the original point of the thread Will, the thread started with "problems i cant sort" which basically was for "how to manage your decks and tricks in your pockets"


Jags

Don't know if this is a useful comment but what you wear can help alot. Whenever I have the intention of performing somewhere (usually in my local) I where combat trousers. They're inexpensive, have pockets inside pockets which are behind pockets, and are really comfortable. I usually wear a nice casual shirt with them and it makes me look moderately presentable.

Of course this probably wouldn't be appropriate for table hopping magic (where yhe standard tends to be wearing a suit), but the stuff I do is more "street magic" even though it isn't technically performed in the street.

I usually keep things that are similar in the same group of pockets. For example, if I decided to use a svengali deck (mine is red) I'd put it in my right (R for Red, R for Right) leg pocket (just above the knee) and a standard red deck in the pocket right behind it. This way when I put the deck away sharply after using it, and they say "let me see those cards" I can pull the standard red deck out of the same area of pockets (they are none the wiser) and they inspect it as much as they like.

I generally keep my decks of cards in my leg pockets so i generally make up some mnemonic system before I leave the house and I'm set. It's the easiest way I've found to memorise the setup of my pockets. I don't see why this mnemonic system couldn't work for a suit jacket or whatever you wear.

jagsmagic wrote:

GoldFish wrote:To relate this back to the original point of this thread, if you give the spectator a choice or an option, however basic or complex it may be, your routine must be able to cope with every eventuality. Therefore you must be prepared for every eventuality. Again, a fundamental part of good routining.

this was not the original point of the thread Will, the thread started with "problems i cant sort" which basically was for "how to manage your decks and tricks in your pockets"


Jags

Jags,

I think the problem here is that you asked a routine structuring question. This led to responses being written by structure junkies like myself. You then provided an outline of a routine with an unroutined element, and the structure junkies replied.

As a way of getting this discussion back on an even keel or at least closing it elegantly can I suggest that the card to elephant transformation should now be referred to as the Jags Change.

Anyone want to post the video?

magic_evmeister wrote:Don't know if this is a useful comment but what you wear can help alot. Whenever I have the intention of performing somewhere (usually in my local) I where combat trousers. They're inexpensive, have pockets inside pockets which are behind pockets, and are really comfortable. I usually wear a nice casual shirt with them and it makes me look moderately presentable.

I like this idea. Is there any problem with the naturalness of the action?
If your seated then instead of putting your hand to your side you may well be placing it under the table to get to the pocket. This definately feels suspicious but is useful cover for the deck switch you describe.

I wrote:

Don't know if this is a useful comment but what you wear can help alot. Whenever I have the intention of performing somewhere (usually in my local) I where combat trousers. They're inexpensive, have pockets inside pockets which are behind pockets, and are really comfortable. I usually wear a nice casual shirt with them and it makes me look moderately presentable.

And then...

Pdjamez wrote:

I like this idea. Is there any problem with the naturalness of the action? If your seated then instead of putting your hand to your side you may well be placing it under the table to get to the pocket. This definately feels suspicious but is useful cover for the deck switch you describe.

I've never really had any problem with this method of deck switching. The Svengali deck idea is not a good example in my (reflectiive) opinion. I never use mine for anything really. But when I use this switching technique it's usually after I've shown only a couple of tricks:

I'll do a couple of card tricks (impromptu or believably impromptu) then put the deck away and do something non-card - crazy man's handcuffs is my usually favourite. Then I can bring out my "setup" deck out afterward from the "same pocket" (or same region of my trousers as they won't remember) and perform my setup trick.

After I've done the "setup" trick then I can put the deck away and act like thats the last trick I'm gonna do (hence why the deck is being put away). It's normally something like Astral Projection by Jay Sankey (to those who understand - once again. my apologies). After I return the deck to the box and someone asks to see the deck I bring out my real deck and let them examine. After this, I often get asked for MORE. And my ONE-TRICK deck is out of the picture and the normal deck is in the specs hands ready for them to see another trick.

Sorry, the one thing (and probably the most important) thing that I forgot to include in that reply is that table magic is not a frequent thing for me.

If it makes more (after my previous post) then I generally entertain someone for two or three minutes and let them decide (using the inspecting the deck thing) whether I show them more or move on to someone else.

As many people here will know - I'm not a professional so my opinion is not gospel. I'm more than willing to be slapped down like the ***** that I am if someone has a blatantly better way of performing non-professionally. But please bear in mind that I've only been doing magic for around 6 months so be gentle. I have much to learn (That's why I'm here, on this forum).

magic_evmeister wrote: I have much to learn (That's why I'm here, on this forum).

Thats why we're all here! I think the great thing about magic is that no ones word is gospel. With the possible exception of Dai Vernon.

It just happened that I was wearing combats when I read your post, so I had an opportunity to look at the movement. Its just my brain ticking over.
Since you have had an opportunity to perform in this way, and I havent, I was wondering if it raised any suspision, and if so how you handled it. Since you don't do the effects seated, my question was irrelevant.

pdjamez wrote

I was wondering if it raised any suspision, and if so how you handled it.

Well if you're familiar with the Astral Projection it'll be easy to explain. The trick is based around the deck being divided into two halves - I have one, they have the other > All of my cards are shown > they remember one > I patter for a bit > I show all of my cards again and their merely thought of card has disappeared > put them back in the box > then they look through all of the cards they were holding from the start of the trick and find their card > the trick is finished > they are amazed > the other half of the deck goes back in the box and in my left leg pocket.

Since I imply that this will be my last trick there's more than enough reason to put the deck in my pocket when I finish.

So to actually answer your question, I generally don't get any raised suspicion over it because they will have already inspected "the deck" on previous occasions and since they come out of identical boxes, from the "same pocket" as far as they know, and look exactly the same as the previous cards they think nothing of it. Then after I've put the deck away because it was my "last trick" and they say "Hold on, let me see that deck again!" I bring out the normal deck and let them look all they want. After this I often get a "that was cool, show me another one." If i've got another packet trick like Astral Projection then I can repeat the whole process again, for example I have used Knock 'Em Dead a few times but depending on how the revelation works out they can figure out I must've switched decks.

Also, if someone is wandering what I do to get the deck in after switching it with my normal deck. Well, this won't be much of a surprise to some of you but, I just do a non card trick (usually crazy mans handcuffs, or something similar) and do the switching with my pockets being in the same area when I bring out the "same deck" again. No sleights or misdirection reequired, just combat trousers - very magi friendly. The only limit is the number of pockets you can attach to one area of your clothing.

Here's a question:

Does anyone have a believable patter line/justification for switching from a blue deck to a red deck in the middle of a show or performance - even if it is separated by a non-card trick, because they will still wander why you switched it if you don't tell them first.

A red Deck is more festive!?

Rob