talkmagic.co.uk

Hi,
my question can be considered silly but I wonder if learning a memorized deck is an useful tool or not for a mentalist.
Fabio

yes it would be.

Have a look at this thread which currently appears on the same page that you posted from: http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3646.php

It may be a good idea to use the search function in future, this board has been around a few years now and we've covered a lot of stuff.

A memorised deck is definately a good thing to learn in magic.

There are many systems and techniques for doing this. Some use Chased order ( check your books for meaning of CHASED). Others use complicated mathematical setups. Others use stacks.

I recommend a Mnemonic Deck. It will take you about two and a half hours to learn and there is some amazing stuff you can do with it, including mentalism, magic card effects, gambling effects etc..

It does cost a bit though, at least thirty quid.

Hope this helps

I thoroughly recommend the OSterlind MEmorised BReakthrough Card system. Not only do you then have an incredible tool for mentalism, but you may also perform effects that require a memorised deck.

I also think Cassidy's 'memorised deck' routine is phenomenal - gives the impression of repidly learning a shuffled deck of cards, in a very visual and memorable way.

Si

I'm a big fan of a memorised deck. It does require some card handling to make it most believeable. A good false shuffle is essential.
There are plenty of simple false shuffles in Card College 2 that will do the trick though.

Cheers

Shanester

Chased and the Osterlind system are both stacked decks. much easier than memorising a deck for real.

Personally I'd go for stacked over memorised.

It all depends on what you want to do with it.
The benefit of a memorized deck is that it's so versatile.
Cyclical decks do have their uses though

Shanester

Johndoe wrote:Chased and the Osterlind system are both stacked decks. much easier than memorising a deck for real.

Sure, but truly memorised deck can do far more than a stacked (by which I mean a systematic order rather than a random predetermined stack) deck as you are able to put any card at any position for use in many different tricks which need such preparation and still allows you to do everything you couls with another stack.

Memorising a stack isn't all that hard either, if you read a bit about memory techniques, particularly the mnemonic pegs related to numbers it is possible to learn a deck in less than 2 hours. When I first learned the Aronson stack I did it in two passes through the deck because I already had the pegs in place, it took less than 15 minutes and I was able to name the card at any number and vice versa in significantly less time than it took to use the BCS.

For my money, memorised decks are more useful than other stacks, and not as hard to learn as you might think.

Allan Ackerman uses a memorised tetradistic stack (13 cards of different values and suits repeated 4 times..Stebbins is a tetradistic "cyclical" stack) in his effect "Ackermans opener" which is one of the most amazing routines you'll see..an "invisble deck"done with ordinary cards leading into "Triumph"..leading into a memorised deck routine and finishing with all 4 cards of every value culled together in 2 shuffles

The whole idea behind memorised decks used in mentalism is very solid.

And as stated, it's not even a case of learning a stack either. Mnemonic systems are all well and good, but the deck needs to be left in-stack.

However, simple memorised deck systems can be performed almost impromptu... here's some ideas:

Does the WHOLE deck need to be memorised? Of course not... in fact, some stunning mentalism can be done by memorising only the top and bottom card of the deck. It really can be that simple.

Again, I bring up the name Sal Piacente. His 'memory opener' is literally astounding... I will explain it briefly:

A deck of cards is presented, taken from the box, spread to show all cards are different. The SPECTATOR shuffles the deck.
A quarter of the deck roughly is taken from the top. The magician BRIEFLY glimpses at the cards, and memorises them—in less than 4 seconds.
The spectator is asked to remove any card from the quarter. INSTANTLY the magician knows which one.
This is repeated—with the rest of the deck. And yes, they're regular cards.

I cannot divulge the method here, but it's a simple stack which RELIES on being shuffled. Absolutely fantastic feat of memory power... or so it seems.


ANOTHER stack system which can be used to great effect in mentalism relies on a totally random deck order and NO memory or mnemonics... here's how it plays:

A deck is shown to 3 speccys be completely random. Magician shuffles.
Spectator cuts the deck a few times, completing the cuts. Speccy 1 cuts off approx 1/3 of deck, places it in front of them. Speccy 2 cuts off another 1/3. Speccy 3 takes the remainder.

Now... each speccy takes the TOP card from their pile, looks at it—shows it to the other speccy's (important) under the premise of 'proving to each other that they each chose a different card and none are stooges who may swap cards out etc.', and keeps it safe. All is to be done with magi's back turned.

Once they've all chosen and hidden their cards, magic turns around. Rest of the deck is gathered up by Magician and cast aside, won't be needed.

Magician takes a pad and attempts to read minds of spectators by asking them in turn to take a blank frame in their mind and imagine the card in the frame, then imagine just the colours/numbers they see... NOT the card itself... magi writes prediction for each speccy in turn—one at a time.

First speccy takes their prediction, and reveals for the first time their card—3 of hearts (e.g.).
Magician states "Now, this spectator didn't give much away. Mind on other things... but I got a little about their card..."
They open their prediction... it says "A low red card, possibly a heart". Not a bad guess.

Second speccy reveals their card—Queen of Spades.
Magi states "This spectator had a lot more clarity of thought, but even so I saw a lot of detail which perhaps clouded my judgement..."
They open their prediction, which says "Confused about the colours here... lots of colours—not just black or red. It's a spade, possibly a court card.". Close... but not conclusive.

Third and final speccy reveals their card—the Four of Diamonds. Magi states that "This spectator has a VERY strong mind. I get the impression that you, sir (addressing speccy 3) have some sort of photographic memory, as you seemed to be confusing the other spectator's cards with your own..."
They open their prediction...
"LOTS of colours... Vivid thoughts... A 3 of Hearts, A Queen of Spades, and a Four of Diamonds."

HOW?
THIS is an easy effect to perform...

Take a regular deck and shuffle it. Check that the cards are in no particular order.
You'll need a notepad of the type which has a retainable stub at the top... which separates via perforations from the sheets inside. Also, must have a cover...
Take your notepad and WRITE DOWN the order of the cards in light pencil on the inside cover of your pad, so that when the pad is opened, you can easily see them, but from a few feet away, they are almost invisible. That's your stack!

Perform as above...
When you retrieve the deck of cards after each selection is made, memorise the BOTTOM card of each pile, in order. Done by a simple glimpse, use your own method. No heat will be here, as you state the cards are no longer needed. Place them in the card case.

Open your pad and immediately, on the stub at the top write the 3 cards you've memorised.

For Spectator 1's card divination, use the THIRD spectator's bottom card to find out on your list on the flap which card which would have been on top of Speccy 1's pile. Write on the main area of the pad some minor info, such as value range and colour. This makes you look 'close, but not toooooo close'

For Spectator 2's card, use the FIRST spectator's bottom card to see where in the stack list written on the flap the NEXT card was. This gives you the top card of their stack, ergo, their chosen card. Write down a little more info, but add some confusion.

For Speccy 3's card, use the SECOND speccy's bottom card to find their value.

Write down ALL THREE predictions on Speccy 3's sheet of paper.

I think, even this simple method has mileage. Not sure if the above effect is useful, as I've literally just made it up, but I'm sure it's workable, and a great example of a NON MEMORISED random stack.

nice one seige can i steal it.

magicdiscoman wrote:nice one seige can i steal it.

Feel free... it's an idea, use it as you feel fit.

If you're willing to give up the premise of it being a random stack, it would be a great trick to do using BCS or similar. Even Stebbins. You don't need a notepad, just glimpse the bottom cards as you take them and write the third prediction first - that will give you the three selections written down so you don't have to worry about remembering them.

Kati