talkmagic.co.uk

Hi guys,

I don't want to dig up an old thread as I feel that people have got their strong opinions about Ellusionist.com and have often expressed them here. However, I just wondered if anyone from this site actually uses them to purchase items or use their forums?

I've bought quite a few things from them - lots of their own dvds and also some of their speciality card packs.

I do find Brad's approach quite interesting and fresh, and you have to admit, the videos are very slick and produced with a certain 'MTV' edge.

however, I'm not always impressed with his teaching. This isn't a personal dig at Brad, but the style of the video. They do seem to fly through things a little quickly (compare them to the in depth teaching of any Michael Ammar DVD).

Ninja 1, whilst giving me a good start on the Pass, went nowhere near the detail needed to fully teach this, and that left me somewhat disapointed. It is marketed as a video to learn The Pass - yet at the start Brad says something like ' I'm going to go over things rather quickly because you are already expected to know the pass'

Anyway, I've just been looking through their forums and I've come across numerous posts where the Mods have deleted threads or links. OK, so forums need rules - and I fully agree with those here at TM. However, I just get the feeling that it is very much a Big Brother controlled environment. I guess their primary aim is to sell products, and any reviews / discussions that don't favour Ellusionist’s items seem to be instantly jumped on - or even deleted!

One guy mentioned how his Ghost Cards were cut badly (as this also applied to me, I was quite interested in this thread). However, the replies from Ellusionist were along the lines of "Don't ever write things that you don't know the full facts of..” "the Ghost Cards are Perfect" ... "bad comments like that can be spread around the net in hours". Well yes they can, but my first few decks of the Ghost Cards were far from perfect.

Sorry, I'm not entirely sure where my ramblings are going or what my point is! - but after spending an hour or so over at the Ellusionist forums, I just feel that it is a somewhat artificial environment, and one that is controlled to some degree, and I do wonder how many of the ‘members’ offering ‘impartial advice’ are on the Ellusionist payroll!

Anyway, better get on - got some Pass learing to do . . .

I've never purchased anything from Ellusionist.com myself so it wouldntt be fair to comment on their service.

Their web site is nicely put together and well laid out but behind the glitz and glamour, they just really don't have much, if anything that I'm interested in buying from them.

For those odd bits and pieces such as tigers and ghosts, when you add in the postage charges you can pick them up cheaper elsewhere.

I have used Ellusionist a lot in the past, and have purchased a few of the DVD's from them (Ninja 1&2, XB, Shapeshifter) and have never had problems with their service.

For example, my XB DVD case was smashed up when it arrived. I emailed the team, and they sent me a new case out straight away. Also, some parts of the Ninja 2 DVD wouldn't play on my machine, so I emailed them, and they sent me the VHS version free of charge.

I like the idea of the protected forums where you can openly discuss the effects you have bought with other people. I have had some good pointers from De'vo in the CTG forum, and Brad and the team have always been helpful.

That said, it does seem to be a bit over-controlled. I enjoy the atmosphere better at TM, if that makes sense. Team E are very strict on all internet slang, and while I can't stand lots of it, the occasional IMHO, or HTH, doesn't go amiss.

They don't mind constructive criticism about their products, but I do agree with you on the Ghost Card thread. I think I'm going to wait till the second run to get some, hopefully they've ironed out the problems by then. A lot of the content does seem to be based around buying E products, but I haven't been disappointed with what I've bought. I know the customer team will help with any problems I have.

Anyway, I would say check them out for yourselves if you haven't already, and let us know what you think.

Thanks for listening,

Even though this is an old thread, I agree with the posts here. I have dealt with Ellusionists in the past and have found their service to be very professional. I also think their forum is set up pretty well and the protected forums are a great idea. But in saying all that, I still feel a little uncomfortable and out of place when I'm there. One reason might be because I feel like I am an old man surrounded by a whole lot of teenagers who want to be the next David Blane or Chris Angel and the other reason is because I too feel like it is kind of a Big Brother environment where if someone says something even remotely negative about a ellusionist product or the forums they are quickly jumped on. I could be wrong but it's just the feeling I get.

In saying all that there are still some decent people on those forums and some of the information I pick up from there on occasion is quite valuable (I guess any extra information is valuable) but the truth of the matter is that definitely I feel like I am more in my element over here.

Hi there,

I know what you mean, and after reading some of the recent posts here about the XTC deck, De'vo's response and the way Ellusionist has closed and deleted all references to that topic just fuel my concerns.

Something else that I was wondering about the other day is Mr Brad Christian himself. Prior to Ellusionist how successful was he? Has he invented any routines / effects himself? I've never seen any material for sale, or read a review of a live show or TV special that he has done.

I have to say that I LOVE Ellusionist. It's never done anything that wasn't spot on perfect for my order. I'm in NY while they are in California and it ships here in three days. So...I love Ellusionist...It's where I buy almost of all of my magic.

I LOVE Ellusionist, too. I started magic with their Crash Course dvds, and they really help me with magic & showmanship (a little is better than none).
But I always criticise whom I like. I don't care about the others doing.

E's forums is very protected because they're doing a business there. Go on and check the forums, many good reviews about Axis change, a guy wrote a single bad thing about it; Brad C. just appeared in the post right away. If you try to contact Brad, or make any good topics about him, you can't see him that easy. Also you can't see many user videos on mindbender, infuison, etc. Why? They don't want you to expose method. I watched many of them before going down, they weren't doing anything wrong or anything new which isn't at E's demos(or exposing anything). So I really don't like this situation. I wish they just release dvds like the old times.

Good point...The video forum for E is not the same that it is for TM. TM allows all videos (more or less ) while, like GaMeR said, E makes sure the video doesn't give away the method.

I understand what your saying GaMeR and I also feel like Brad C seems more likely to make an appearance on a thread when something negative has been stated about a particular product they sell. Especially if the post is not just a foolish and malicious attack on the company (which is usually dealt with by the staff or moderators) but just something that seems to contain some weight and truth to it.

I guess with the Ellusionist forum being owned and run by a company with the financial interest to push their products; it is just common sense to make the assumption that a forum like that would never be able to achieve a complete unbiased point of view. I am not criticizing Ellusionist for that because at the end of the day they are business, they are definitely NO charity. I believe their forums serve a good purpose in the way they offer support and exclusive access to forums for those who have purchased their products. But at the same time, this obviously serves another purpose, and that is, I believe, to create a deep sense of loyalty and further promote their products which will obviously greatly assist in increasing their sales. How effective is this agenda? To me it seems very effective! I have never seen so many people - purchasers who have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars in that one place and who are not even on commission! - promoting products with a total sales pitch as if their own fortune depended on it. I know we can all get excited about some of the products we have purchased and like to promote them due to our enthusiasm; but I have never seen it done with so so much conviction and in so much abundance! Several times I have come across comments made by customers on the Ellusionist forums along the lines of: "YOU MUST BUY THIS NOW!" "MY ONLY COMPLAINT IS WHY IS THIS SO CHEAP!", "BRAD, THANKS FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE FOR ME!", "BRAD YOU ARE THE BEST EXPLAINER IN THE WORLD!", "BRAD YOU CAN SLEEP WITH MY WIFE ANYTIME!" (okay, the last comment I made up ) But I swear at times it feels more like a fan club than a forum!

I have also wondered, as was stated by "The Last Deck on the Left" (that is one hell of a long name! LOL), who was Brad C before ellusionist.com? Did he have a reputation as a great magician before that? I have not been able to find anything on him. All I know is that he definitley must have a great business sense because it seems that he has really pulled it off with ellusionist.com.

Anyway, my intentions are not to bag ellusionist.com. I don't think they are evil (as far as I know) I think they are a very professional company that sell pretty good products - I don't think they are the best products in the world like some people believe but they are not total rubbish either. Their forums can be very helpful for purchasers of their products and there are few pretty level headed people who post on some of those forums. But as an unbiased forum it is (as I have stated before) definitely no "talkmagic.co.uk" which is made by magicians for magicians without a financial interest (as far as I know )

Thank you for listening to my rant, and now I am off to purchase some tricks which may involve visiting the aforemetioned and godforsaken ellusionist.com. Please pray for me, so I do not surcome to the unrelenting 14 year olds who maybe waiting for me there! Waiting to perform their brain washing techniques (that they recently purchased from that very site) in a desperate attempt to get me to part with my dear hard earned cash!

(I better get off line quickly! I feel like ellusionist.com is tracking me!)

Costas

"talkmagic.co.uk" which is made by magicians for magicians without a financial interest

Very true!

You have some good points there, Costas. I forgot about the big brother thingy in the forums. When I started magic, I only know E's forums; and my wishlist consist of many things I won't get today. I'm really happy E doesn't ship to Turkey, I couln't buy all of those.
It's really embressing to see that people (3 people with over 200 posts in E forums) in there didn't hear anything like Expert Card Technique book. And those are giving some suggestions to eachother to do or not to do. The forums are really strict, I'm happy that I had searched for other magic forums with the new year.

But in those forums some posts are very good, the kind of lecture like; and now they are moving them into another section. Those include showmanship, misdirection, audience management along with many other things; I love those kind of threads there and check frequently E's forums for them.

The Last Deck on the Left wrote:
Ninja 1, whilst giving me a good start on the Pass, went nowhere near the detail needed to teach this, and that left me with a bitter aftertaste. It is marketed as a video to learn The Pass - yet at the start Brad says something like ' I'm going to go over things rather quickly because you are already expected to know the pass'

....

Yes i agree i was disappointed to find out that he only shows how to do the pass probably for less then 5 mins i was hoping to get it and he walk me through the whole pass. but like you said he says something along the lines that this is a short video and we need to keep the file size down. so what he ends up doing is pretty much useless to me i learnt nothing from his Pass at all

can anyone recommend a DVD that covers The pass in greater detail?

Thanks

Sky321 wrote:

The Last Deck on the Left wrote:
Ninja 1, whilst giving me a good start on the Pass, went nowhere near the detail needed to teach this, and that left me with a bitter aftertaste. It is marketed as a video to learn The Pass - yet at the start Brad says something like ' I'm going to go over things rather quickly because you are already expected to know the pass'

....

can anyone recommend a DVD that covers The pass in greater detail?

Thanks

Check out "Pass With Care". It's excellent. After working with that you may get a lot more out of Ninja-1. Here's the link so you can read about it....

http://www.ellusionist.com/order/Pass-W ... d.php?cat=

GaMeR wrote:
But in those forums some posts are very good, the kind of lecture like; and now they are moving them into another section. Those include showmanship, misdirection, audience management along with many other things; I love those kind of threads there and check frequently E's forums for them.

GaMeR,

I'm glad you found that section. There have been some incredible threads in the last year or two and we have moved them all into that (VIP) section. A lot of changes to our forums have taken place over the last couple of weeks, with many more coming.

To address a couple of the concerns above...

We're pretty strict in the E Forums and our forums are well moderated. We created a structure that is intended to remove some of the fluff, and bad grammar, and fights etc. The E forums can be a somewhat volatile place if we don't keep a strong eye on things. So we trade a little freedom for that but we feel we need to and that it's worth it to us. Don't forget we have 45,000 registered members and this creates a need for more discipline, especially because there is a younger audience involved. Not all of them are young and not all are Blaine-Wannabes (which is fine too, you have to start somewhere!), but still, it's a younger group and requires more watching.


Our main aim is to keep the forums moving forward, and on the topic of learning magic. We like the energy to move and not get stopped up because someone told someone else that their idea "sucked" or because someone's post is filled with Internet slang and hard to understand. We insist that when someone review a product, or a post, or a video, that they do it constructively. Nothing needs to be slammed and there is always room to explain WHY you didn't like it so that it helps the situation.

It's a trade off, plain and simple, and a choice we made early on.

I have never seen so many people - purchasers who have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars in that one place and who are not even on commission! - promoting products with a total sales pitch as if their own fortune depended on it. I know we can all get excited about some of the products we have purchased and like to promote them due to our enthusiasm; but I have never seen it done with so so much conviction and in so much abundance! Several times I have come across comments made by customers on the Ellusionist forums along the lines of: "YOU MUST BUY THIS NOW!" "MY ONLY COMPLAINT IS WHY IS THIS SO CHEAP!", "BRAD, THANKS FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE FOR ME!",

Partly I think that may just be excitement - they like what they've bought and they're very forthright about expressing it. But part of it is that we try only to have things on the site that WE really like and use ourselves (our team are nearly all working magicians and all are perfectionists in one way or another). You'll notice we don't put 'everything' up on the shelf as a lot of other dealers do... we're picky and we try to sell only items that make an impact or will be useful to people. And that seems to work to create a lot of good reviews and excitement for people.

(I better get off line quickly! I feel like ellusionist.com is tracking me!)

By Brad himself! Ha!

Costas, I appreciate the things you've said, thank you.