talkmagic.co.uk

by **katrielalex** » Nov 29th, '05, 16:21

In the November newsletter there was a paragraph as follows:

PENGUIN MAGIC
I recently released an e-mail in which I listed a number of serious grievances I have had with Penguin Magic's business practices over the past two years. In addition to those factually-based grievances, I also included my "suspicion" that Penguin Magic has sold counterfeit versions of some of my products. I would like to apologize to Penguin Magic, Acar Altinsel and Maxwell Murphy for sharing that suspicion in such a public manner. I regret doing so for two reasons. First, by sharing a mere suspicion, I ran the risk of distracting readers from the many factually-based instances in which Penguin Magic has treated me less than fairly or professionally. And second, by including my unfounded belief in my e-mail, I mistakenly crossed the line between personal and professional and for that I am truly sorry. - Jay Sankey

Kati

by **Sam:monkey fist** » Nov 29th, '05, 17:19

I have never bought anything from Penguin and now Never Will. I Have a massive respect for Jay and his Products.

by **MagicTom** » Nov 29th, '05, 19:56

vic_vdb wrote:Considering all the hours of discussion we have had on TM regarding copying and copyright I can only assume that this situation highlights everything that is wrong in our hobby/profession.

The problem is that we live in a world of conditional morality where everyone will take a stand until they realise that they will have to pay more. Can I put my dog collar on for a second and add this comment: "you don't muzzle the ox thatgrinds the grain" and "the workjman is worthy of his (right) reward".

Bottom line, if we support shops that duplicate (nicer term than might be used) trick and sell them without the proper money being received by the author then we are accomplices in an act of theft. Money should not be our bottom line but integrity should be what shapes us.

To modify slightly a famous end line "All done by kindness and integrity" this should be our tenet and the measure of all who indulge in magic and those who seek to undermine or ignore this will destroy our great hoby and the fraternity that we are.

Desist from using those companies that are 'dodgy' (strat-O-Sphere or Joker tube?) and avoid paying to those who work in magic what they are due. Publicise the fact to beginners in our craft and perhaps even mail PM and tell them that their link has become invisible.

Pay a little more and have more tricks developed or pay less and watch the well eventually run dry.

Vic

Pay a little more and have more tricks developed or pay less and watch the well eventually run dry. -

I think Vic has a good point here.

As much as you may now dislike penguin magic they are promoting our hobby and if we let them go then we are starting to damage our resources. I may not make much sense but Vic has a good point.

by **dat8962** » Nov 29th, '05, 20:27

I think that when the poll question was posed, we only had one side of the story. Since thenm there has been response from Renguin and much debate which at times has made Sankey's argument less convincing that it originally was.

Only the person wanting to buy can decide if he or she will use Penguin in the future and there have already been comments here, and in other threads from people posting that they would buy from Penguin if they couldn't get what they wanted elsewhere.

At the end of the day I don't suspect that for one moment that this post will make any long term difference to Penguin or Sankey amd both will move on rather swiftly.

by **MagicTom** » Nov 29th, '05, 21:14

"At the end of the day I don't suspect that for one moment that this post will make any long term difference to Penguin or Sankey amd both will move on rather swiftly."

Yes...you are right!!!

by **magic_evmeister** » Dec 8th, '05, 02:56

Quite simply, Jay Sankey rules. I have tremendous respect for the bloke and only hope that one day I can be half the magician and entertainer that he is. I'd settle for just meeting the guy and just being able to chat magic with him for an hour or two. If anyone has any doubts over the talent of this man then they should just go out and try some of his stuff.

I have learnt so much from the resources he has provided that have served me very well (tried his Resistance Is Futile in the pub tonight and it went down great). Purely for my respect for the bloke I will honour his request and never order from Penguin. For an call to action like this I need no other prompting than Jay Sankey's request.

Jay Rocks!!!! I SUPPORT HIM 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **allanmagicdavis** » Apr 12th, '06, 19:44

magic_evmeister wrote:Quite simply, Jay Sankey rules. I have tremendous respect for the bloke and only hope that one day I can be half the magician and entertainer that he is. I'd settle for just meeting the guy and just being able to chat magic with him for an hour or two. If anyone has any doubts over the talent of this man then they should just go out and try some of his stuff.

I have learnt so much from the resources he has provided that have served me very well (tried his Resistance Is Futile in the pub tonight and it went down great). Purely for my respect for the bloke I will honour his request and never order from Penguin. For an call to action like this I need no other prompting than Jay Sankey's request.

Jay Rocks!!!! I SUPPORT HIM 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not have said it better myself, i have total respect to the bloke, i dint think id be the magician I am today without Jay, he has been an inspiration to the magic community.

I will never buy from Penguin Again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **Johndoe** » Apr 12th, '06, 19:54

Penguin ripped Magicbunny off. So personally I will never shop there.

I have also heard shocking things about their customer service.

by **Delude** » Apr 12th, '06, 21:51

Well i have sort of hated penguin from the start.
Can i ask who the actual owners are? Do they have anything to do with the people on the videos?

I Now hate Penguin and hope that they get what they deserve.

Penguin are trying to totally get rid of all sankeys stuff! Look at the link on the right of there page! http://www.penguinmagic.com/jay_sankey_ ... s_tour.php

by **dat8962** » Apr 12th, '06, 22:11

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the business relationship between Penguin and Sankey, that does not excuse you from what you claim you have done in taking things for free, knowing that it's wrong.

You are not only ripping off Penguin but also ripping off Sankey and in the long term this harms magic.

Where will we be if the few creatives in the magic world stop releasing their creations because of the threat of people such as yourself ripping them off.

There's nothing clever and no glory in what you have openly stated. Stop and think how you would feel if someone just took your property simply because they felt like it.

Delude, you're deluding yourself!

by **Delude** » Apr 12th, '06, 22:17

I assure you the videos my friend gave me were nothing to do with sankey. They were vidz that penguin had basically ripped. I'm gonna shutup now

i apologise to everyone aswell. Nothin will happen again. i accepted the vidz purely for my hatrid to penguin at the minute.
I realise what i did was wrong.
i am getting worked up in annoyance that penguin would do such a thing as i know alot of people that have bought from here.

by **Mandrake** » Apr 12th, '06, 22:35

Johndoe wrote:Penguin ripped Magicbunny off.

For more details of this aspect, check out http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/sutra58344.p ... ght=#58344 a few pages back in this thread.

by **dat8962** » Apr 12th, '06, 22:49

I'm not defending Penguin and I've not shopped there since learning of their business antics, My point was and is that two wrongs don't make it right.

If you want to take the moral high ground, then by all means do that but that often means that you have to have morals and live by them yourself.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself (that's the closest that I remember from Sunday school :oops:

). Jeez, I never thought that I'd ever quote from the scriptures

There endeth the sermon :lol:

by **magic_evmeister** » Apr 13th, '06, 04:57

Does anyone else think thank that Penguin may be going bankrupt? Or at least the "European Distribution Centre"?

I check there often as they're very good for demo's of tricks. But I can't help noticing that they have SO MUCH stuff out of stock that they may not be buying anymore stock because they're going out of business.

by **Demitri** » Apr 13th, '06, 05:26

It's not just the European side of things. The US side has plenty of "out of stock" notices all over the place.

They won't admit to it, but I have to believe the Sankey situation hurt their sales.

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