talkmagic.co.uk

Mark I can't tell. Is your post satirical? If so it's very funny.

Johndoe wrote:Mark I can't tell. Is your post satirical? If so it's very funny.

If it isn't, it's still very funny.

With all of these reverends around - it makes me feel like I'm in the wrong forum. I left the ministry for a good reason

Ere! I resemble that remark!

I bought myself membership of the Church of the Sub Genius a couple of years back, filled in all the forms and sent them off. I'm a real reverend! What a fantastic planet!

All that strikes me is that Mark wrote the Anonymous post and is possibly also "Svengali".

Mandrake wrote:(Any minute now someone's going to pass the collection plate around - dig deep folks, we much prefer to hear the rustle of paper rather than the chink of metal )

Oh yes. Always get the money! Communion wine doesn't drink, er, I mean buy itself!

ian69 wrote:All that strikes me is that Mark wrote the Anonymous post and is possibly also "Svengali".

Mark is known to have more than one personality, which is why so many of us refer to him as Sybil.

I must inform taneous that the churches which I and Reverend Browning
represent have one major advantage in them. Both are different churches entirely but I am sure we share the same advantage. If not I am sure that the very Reverend Browning will no doubt correct me but will do so in a spirit of interfaith harmony.

The major advantage is that belief in God is not required although I suppose you can if you want. The other advantage is that one does not have to study for years and go to a seminary.

In fact you could probably become a reverend yourself in our churches within a very short time. Possibly a couple of week or so depending on the postal situation.

Of course if you wish to collect donations then you will have to study a trifle. I can recommend a very good course.

It is known as the Mark Lewis Home Study Course. Reverend Browning has also put out a book I understand and his fans will no doubt be able to obtain it from him.

I have no idea what the rules of advertising are on here so I will say no more about the matter.

I would not want anyone here to think that I have a mercenary side to my nature.

ian69 wrote:

Tomo wrote:Oh, and if you keep it to yourselves, then no one will think you've gone a bit "David Ike". Geddit?

The thing is, if you are asked directly where you're coming from, it's rude not to answer.

I hope this doesn't disturb you, but I've been giving this some thought.

As it applies to magic or especially mentalism, I'm thinking: why not just play the gig and walk away. No explanations, no nothing. The receiver can find their own meaning in what they think they've witnessed. How you define "their" is another matter. Personally, I'm happy with people thinking they've seen something unique and clever, but I've had some true believers too. They get no explanation either. Why should they? They're not, shall we say, "unfortunate". These are people actively thinking and coming up with their own meanings, and that's real freedom of thought, independent of what I think.

Am I right in saying that this is what postmodernism is? I'm not sure, but if it is, perhaps the future of magic is postmodern. I hope it is, at least until we find out if it has decent scope for development.

As it applies to magic or especially mentalism, I'm thinking: why not just play the gig and walk away. No explanations, no nothing. The receiver can find their own meaning in what they think they've witnessed. How you define "their" is another matter. Personally, I'm happy with people thinking they've seen something unique and clever, but I've had some true believers too. They get no explanation either. Why should they? They're not, shall we say, "unfortunate". These are people actively thinking and coming up with their own meanings, and that's real freedom of thought, independent of what I think.

TOMO you hit the nail upon the proverbial head!

Old style Mentalism, that is if you are one that is willing to learn from the older books vs. videos and DVDs, did exactly what you are saying... you neither confirm or deny whether it's real or not; whether it exists or not. It's a very fine tightrope upon which the trod in that we are part showman and part huckster and the "morality" around it all centers on the individual and his/her sense of both ethics and humanitarianism. For the most part, even the hustlers that are out there, aren't overtly cruel (look at Rev. Lewis... his patrons actually like him and think him to be a fair and honorable man )

Speaking of Rev. Lewis... I probably should respond to his post

The major advantage is that belief in God is not required although I suppose you can if you want. The other advantage is that one does not have to study for years and go to a seminary. [/quote[

Well, not "God" as in the biblical sense. I do think folks need to consider the existence of a "Higher Power" or "Consciousness" -- the Great Spirit as the native American side of my ancestory would call it. I refuse to define it in that it is, by definition, undefinable.

Then too, I have had some seminary training and have a real doctorates degree in Religion, Philosophy and Religious History as well as Metaphsics. (I didn't buy my certifications through the mail).

It is known as the Mark Lewis Home Study Course. Reverend Browning has also put out a book I understand and his fans will no doubt be able to obtain it from him.

Close but no cigar... you have to order it through Loren Tindall.

Reverend Browning. I must point out that the inhabitants of this forum are not psychic like ourselves and will of course will not know who Loren Tyndal (I could have sworn that was the spelling to his name) actually is.
Furthermore they are British and this will make their knowledge of him less likely since he is from the Excited States of America.

I shall let you enlighten them further if you wish to do so.

As for Tomo's post it reminds me of the time I saw Graham Jolley the well known British mentalist give a lecture. He was asked what his attitude was about this sort of thing. He looked puzzled, shrugged his shoulders and said "I don't know. I just do it"

Pretty much what Tomo advised.

Of course you could simply say "You be the judge" This was the standard ploy of the Piddingtons and according to Mrs Piddington in her twilight years she used to infuriate her grandchildren with this irritating answer whenever they asked if she really read minds in her younger years.

Of course all this applies to performances to an audience for entertainment purposes rather than to a one to one psychic reading. The latter is serious stuff and entertainment really has nothing to do with except in very short sessions.

On stage I think it is unwise to go in too strongly that you are the real thing.Neither am I a particular fan of the trend nowadays to imply that what you do is body language, NLP and psychological manipulation.

There is nothing like the punters wondering if you can really read minds. There are always lots of daft people who might be inclined to think this way. However you shouldn't come outright and say it. I agree with the late great Maurice Fogel that you should imply it rather than come right out and say it.

Personally I don't care if they think I am psychic or not providing the cheque clears and nobody throws anything.

Jon Tremaine a fine mentalist believes that the controversy over whether you are real keeps you working.

On stage I usually say "I am not going to make any claims for what you are about to see. Some of what I do is illusion and some of it is reality. In other words some of it is real and some of it is not so real. I'll let you decide which is which. Let me start by showing you something which is not so real" Then I do the baby gag which horrifies the more stuffy mentalists that think this display of jollity is very tut-tut indeed. However since they are not the ones who pay me they can go and stuff themselves.

The main thing is to be entertaining. Hard for a mentalist actually. I have always said that mentalism is the best form of magic if it is done well and the worst if it is done badly.

ian69 wrote:The thing is, if you are asked directly where you're coming from, it's rude not to answer.

Tomo wrote:As it applies to magic or especially mentalism, I'm thinking: why not just play the gig and walk away. No explanations, no nothing. The receiver can find their own meaning in what they think they've witnessed.

Sorry, I meant just here, in answer to Mark's question because it had a bearing on the ethics question under discussion.

There’s a old theory which says the scenery, costumes and locations etc on radio are the finest possible, wonderfully realistic and exactly the right type – all because they are created in the individual listener’s mind. Isn’t this also true of mentalism where the real mind magic takes place in the spectators’ minds?

Mandrake wrote:There’s a old theory which says the scenery, costumes and locations etc on radio are the finest possible, wonderfully realistic and exactly the right type – all because they are created in the individual listener’s mind. Isn’t this also true of mentalism where the real mind magic takes place in the spectators’ minds?

I agree completely. The best pictures are on the wireless. When I was a kid and being tortured with caravaning holidays, my parents used to watch films on TV but I could only hear them in my bunk bed. Seeing them now, they're rubbish compared to the ones I remember "watching"!