Tricks of the Bible

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Postby Craig Browning » May 30th, '06, 18:01



Craig - I like what you're saying and I agree with you. Just one question - what do you mean by 'entertaining folks'. Often magicians and mentalists use that as a disclaimer - "as long as what we're doing is for entertainment purposes only" - as if it's "as long as you don't see this as being real".

I know where you're coming from Taneous and yes, I know that some in our world would use my own words against me :?


Long, long ago before any of us were even a glimmer in the eye of our great, great, great grandparents the world of "Theater" as we know it now, didn't exist. It was lock-stock & barrel an aspect of religious observation -- a tool via which the priests and traveling wise ones (frequently known as "Bards") taught lessons to the masses -- common truths and parables based on the characters (heroes, gods, goddesses, etc.) of that particular group or culture. The auspices of theater transcending language and even education barriers and lending to the orator a means by which to reach the largest number of people with a single idea with the least amount of effort; doing so in such as way so as to appeal to the psyche of humankind via the use of colors, sound, smell, dram, lighting, etc.

A study in the psychology of ritual and a comparason as to how this line of thinking is applied to modern theater, cinema and vice-versa lets us all see (should we have eyes with which to see) how its all still the same thing though it has supposedly been seperated and changed here and there.

Like all the other "Messiahs" roaming the holy lands in his day, Jesus was also a showman... :idea: ... funny how closely that term also suggests "shaman", isn't it?

:roll: but then we spiritually minded types don't believe in coencidences... we leave such concept to the intellects of society that seem to require their existence as a convenient excuse whenit comes to their inability to explain away the miraculous.... rather ironic, that the 'educated" and "scientific" believe in an abstract thing all the air-head believers and students of the surreal don't believe in... :? Get's perplexing at times... y'know?

True to our current era, the Jewish kid with family connections in town and a mother that considers him the son of god, managed to get the right PR company (Robenowitz & Banano of Rome's lower east side)... given the fact that they were loosing their butts off the antiquated Dyonisis thing, Jesus really was the answer to their prayers... (rim shot please).

Ok... to get a bit more "real" and back on point; outside the side of human culture that's been Industrialized and Christianized and more or less brain-washed into Westernized thought, the union between things religious/spiritual and the theatrical are still seen as being one in the same... there is no seperation adn just because their is a "trick" or "skill" in doing the Cups & Balls does not mean that it no longer hosts a spiritual, moral and social "power" around it in the hands of a learned shaman or village chieftan for that matter.

When Dorathy arrived in Oz she was asked if she was a "Good witch or bad witch?" This is the same thing we must ask ourselves; is what we do with the knowledge and skill we have within the theatrical something we use for good and the benefit of others, or are we using it in ways that are actually more cruel, manipulative and allied to an alternate agenda?

If I use a billet peek for an example and it allows me to help someone to not kill themselves or not have an emotional breakdown or whatever; am I doing wrong?

Is it more moral or ethical for me to tell this person that just placed their trust in me, because of what their percieved to have happened, that I'm a fake and I was just playing with their gullibility... only for them to freak completely out, not trust anyone from that point forward and ultimately hurt themselves and potentially, others as well?

If I can take a person into a "Seance-like" mind-set, help them obtain the peace and closure they require for moving forward in their life... something they have not been able to get via a shrink or minister or any other contrived professional... am I wrong?

I personally don't think so and more important, I know that I am "a good witch" because of my own ethics, morals, mind set and most important, my UNDERSTANDING as to where my craft came from, how it was used then, and why it was segregated and by whom less than 2,000 years ago.

Yes, you can do corn-ball mock Readings for folks and get away with selling that as being "entertainment" but I find this is a cop-out more than anything else in today's world; a Cop-out being used by all the trendies that don't want to invest the time, energy and effort that's required for being a RESPONSIBLE and solid Reader/Psychic Entertainer.

This brings us back to the original issue of this thread... the replication of the biblical miracles.

BeerForDolphins! They're not exactly a big secret. Theologians have known for generations that most of the promoted and percieved "Miracles" were known magician's tricks and misunderstood/misrepresented phenomena. They know that many of those outlined in teh New Testament are likewise palgeristic in that they weren't just borrowed from older Pagan lore but from Old Testament tales as well. In fact many historians contend that some of the ideas surrounding the birth of Jesus come straight out of teh Moses tales in Exodus which seem to mirror even older Babylonian tales. So wake up, get over it, there is nothing new under the sun... even Andre Kole walks on water, turns water to wine, et al... Sai Baba in India has raised the dead and fed the masses... St. Patrick managed to transform a blood soaked hankerchief of evedence as to his treachery into Vatican sanction of his divinity... the tricks are everywhere an none of it has changed one lick... just our perception and ability to understand them has.

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Postby Taiven_Grant » May 30th, '06, 19:00

Craig Browning wrote:If I use a billet peek for an example and it allows me to help someone to not kill themselves or not have an emotional breakdown or whatever; am I doing wrong?

Is it more moral or ethical for me to tell this person that just placed their trust in me, because of what their percieved to have happened, that I'm a fake and I was just playing with their gullibility... only for them to freak completely out, not trust anyone from that point forward and ultimately hurt themselves and potentially, others as well?

If I can take a person into a "Seance-like" mind-set, help them obtain the peace and closure they require for moving forward in their life... something they have not been able to get via a shrink or minister or any other contrived professional... am I wrong?


No. Anyone who can provide some comfort for someone in this world, 'real' or not, is doing some good in my book :)

Someone was saying on another thread, possibly you Craig though forgive me if I'm wrong, about someone who was told their loved one was waiting for them on the other side, and concequentially they tried to commit suicide. It's just a responsible job as being a councillor or psychiatrist really.

bronz: "Does everyone have to have an agenda for everything nowadays folks? That's my little on topic rant anyway, I'm quite looking forward to this as it happens."

Not saying everyone has an agenda, but a lot of people do. Seems naive to just watch/read/whatever, something without wondering if they are trying to persuade you of something covertly. Maybe I'm just cynical :lol:

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Postby Steverino » May 30th, '06, 19:37

You can bet your life that channel 4 execs have considered the angle and agenda of this show, and know full well what they are doing.

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Postby Craig Browning » May 30th, '06, 20:03

Steverino wrote:You can bet your life that channel 4 execs have considered the angle and agenda of this show, and know full well what they are doing.


Selling ads and hitting in the rankings being the most probably... that's what they look at the most... then again, controversey, such as this subject creates, means more people "remember" you... it's an old Barnum ploy and it still works. :wink:

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Postby AJ82 » May 30th, '06, 20:20

Not sure if it has already been said, got a bit lost reading all the posts on this topic but...


Tricks from the Bible
11.05pm on Friday 2nd June (1 hour 5 minutes) on Channel 4.

"Barry Jones and Stuart MacLeod draw on the Old Testament as the inspiration for their original and inventive brand of magic. Modern illusionists Barry and Stuart travel across Egypt and the UK as they perform their versions of stories from the Bible using a dazzling array of tricks."

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Postby Steverino » May 30th, '06, 20:36

Well Barnum style certainly still works well on us

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Postby Misanthropy » May 30th, '06, 21:18

Did anyone see the magic of jesus that Barry and Stuart did before christmas? What did you think of it?

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Postby Stephen Ward » Jun 2nd, '06, 22:40

Just to remind all those online, the programme starts at 11.05 tonight.

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Postby AJ82 » Jun 2nd, '06, 22:51

Cheers for the reminder stephenmagic.

Magic is real, just look around you, some of the most amazing things have no reason, no explanation but are very real.
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Postby Stephen Ward » Jun 2nd, '06, 22:54

Call me Stephen :lol:

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Postby AJ82 » Jun 2nd, '06, 22:55

will do Stephen. Wow I just realised I have posted over 100 posts. Don't posts fly when your having fun and learning. :lol:

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Postby Steverino » Jun 2nd, '06, 23:21

:shock: I hope they removed the venom from that cobra :shock:

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Postby AJ82 » Jun 2nd, '06, 23:43

I actually have a pet snake (will try and inset picture below). The cane to snake trick might be a good trick for me to learn!

Image

hope that worked!

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Postby nickj » Jun 3rd, '06, 00:13

All in all, quite an entertaining show I thought.

Some people don't like Barry and Stewart's style but I think it is pretty good, and certainly well rehearsed. I particularly liked the canes to snakes.

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Postby EckoZero » Jun 3rd, '06, 00:15

The tricks themselves were pretty good (did I see a Copperfield illusion in the basement of the music shop???) but Barry and Stuart were kind of annoying. Thankfully the tricks ovrpowered my dislike of them two.

All in all, a good show!

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