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Postby Mark Waddington » Aug 23rd, '09, 21:14



lozey wrote:RE the magic circle - isnt the JUNIOUR magic circle still part of the MAGIC CIRCLE!!! If so, then yes, you're in the magic circle (in my books)


Its not called the Junior Magic Circle for a start, its called "The Young Magicians Club". It is a youth initiative of The Magic Circle, however being a member of the Young Magicians Club doesnt mean your in The Magic Circle as any member of YMC has to go through the exact same audition procedure to get a MMC. Theres no audition for YMC, and gaining membership is on the same level as subscribing to a magazine by post.

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Postby mark lewis » Aug 24th, '09, 12:33

Craig is correct. Showbusiness is a tough business and you have to accept that you are going to be stolen from and you are probably going to steal something yourself if it happens to suit you. Don't tell me you wouldn't dream of it. None of us are angels. Even if it is a gag or line of patter everyone does it all the time. It isn't nice but it happens to be reality.

You have to accept that there are predators out there and it is incumbent on you to protect yourself as best you can. You wouldn't leave the car or house door unlocked so you shouldn't leave your creativity unprotected either.

And of course that goes for amateurs as well as professionals.

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Postby Craig Browning » Aug 24th, '09, 15:55

mark lewis wrote:Craig is correct. Showbusiness is a tough business and you have to accept that you are going to be stolen from and you are probably going to steal something yourself if it happens to suit you. Don't tell me you wouldn't dream of it. None of us are angels. Even if it is a gag or line of patter everyone does it all the time. It isn't nice but it happens to be reality.

You have to accept that there are predators out there and it is incumbent on you to protect yourself as best you can. You wouldn't leave the car or house door unlocked so you shouldn't leave your creativity unprotected either.

And of course that goes for amateurs as well as professionals.


That last line is all too important in that the majority of the greater innovations our industry has seen have all come from the amateur/hobbyist element. Sadly, most that fit this mold are simple trusting souls that are generally oblivious to the nature of our fellow mage or simply ignore it, believing such things wouldn't happen to them.

There is an on-going joke at the Magic Castle pertaining to a "Locked Cabinet" in the library filled with rare and very special books. Something about the irony around locks and magicians if you would. Yet, many have picked the bloody lock. It's a thing psychologist refer to as "The Forbidden Fruit Syndrome" in that certain people are just compelled to steal or, if you would prefer, embrace the idea of a challenge when that challenge entails something "taboo"... such as "borrowing" from others and trespassing.

The sad reality is, magic as we know it today is an extension of the hustler and flim-flam world more than it is those romantic days of the shaman and wizard. We are by nature, money chasers and in some cases, willing to sell our own mother if it would give us an advantage over someone else. A casual look at the History of Magic and some of the things done over the years by some of the biggest names in the trade to other major players. Houdini was one of the worse for this kind of thing, even going so far as to rob the Blackstone warehouse on one occasion and stealing the trunk used by Mr. B (Sr) for his underwater trunk escape... which he did years before Houdini.

The craziness around the Sawing in Half effect is another wonderful chapter in history when it comes to the general theft and in fighting. Kirkham told me about visits by certain noted builders to his and John Daniel's home, just so they could get a closer look at the original Thin Sawing cabinets and create a mental picture with size and measurement estimates... sometimes even accurate measurements in that they'd bring a measuring tape.

The examples are lengthy. The irony to it is how some of these "thefts" evolve into what can be best described as "Standards" to certain effects; the best example being the common gag lines and "bits" done with the Lester Lake Head Chopper and how the material was shared by permission with a couple of chums and then "adopted" by others that saw them all work and ultimately, a huge chunk of that script remains with us now as a presentational common.

But here's something to consider... though you might make a reasonable living doing material that belonged to others or even the canned material you find with an effect, you aren't a "Magician" until you start making the material your own and an extension of you, your dreams, etc. Until you make creativity your cornerstone in all that you do on stage, you are just another dime a dozen wannabe that will not stand "out" from the crowd.

Understand however that the point of being "different" and "original" does not mean you must wear eyeliner and not groom your hair upon waking up, etc. That's just being a rebel. :twisted:

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Postby MagicalSmithy » Aug 25th, '09, 01:17

Craig Browning wrote:
Understand however that the point of being "different" and "original" does not mean you must wear eyeliner and not groom your hair upon waking up, etc. That's just being a rebel. :twisted:


And a little bit homosexual or if not that weird.

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Postby Craig Browning » Aug 25th, '09, 15:18

MagicalSmithy wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:
Understand however that the point of being "different" and "original" does not mean you must wear eyeliner and not groom your hair upon waking up, etc. That's just being a rebel. :twisted:


And a little bit homosexual or if not that weird.


Your retort doesn't make sense to me... MagicalSmithy... it could be constrewn as to be a jab or possibly the suggestion that success in magic requires one to change their gender orientation????

While it is true, the magic world seems to have an above average sense of popularity among gay & bi-sexual people (primarily males), it certainly isn't requisite. That's akin to saying that all professional (male) Dancers are gay and I can assure you that this simply isn't the case. But then, I do know of many truck drivers and construction workers that fit the bill.

Maybe you've got things mixed up with shamanism? :twisted:

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Postby daleshrimpton » Aug 25th, '09, 15:25

Your retort doesn't make sense to me... MagicalSmithy... it could be constrewn as to be a jab or possibly the suggestion that success in magic requires one to change their gender orientation????


As the old theatre box office sign would apparently have you believe..

You dont have to be sexualy Ambiguous to work here.... but it helps.

( ok, it doesnt exist... but i recon it would sell )

you're like Yoda.you dont say much, but what you do say is worth listening to....
Greg Wilson about.... Me.
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Postby IAIN » Aug 25th, '09, 15:28

surely the sign should read "NAFF OMI's NEED NOT SHOW THEIR EEKS NOR WASH THEIR DISHES IN PUBLIC?"

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Postby Mr_Grue » Aug 25th, '09, 16:22

Oo, in' 'e bold! :D

Simon Scott

If the spectator doesn't engage in the effect,
then the only thing left is the method.


tiny.cc/Grue
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Postby madvillainy » Aug 25th, '09, 16:49

This thread sure took a peculiar twist.

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Postby MagicalSmithy » Aug 27th, '09, 01:02

Craig Browning wrote:
MagicalSmithy wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:
Understand however that the point of being "different" and "original" does not mean you must wear eyeliner and not groom your hair upon waking up, etc. That's just being a rebel. :twisted:


And a little bit homosexual or if not that weird.


Your retort doesn't make sense to me... MagicalSmithy... it could be constrewn as to be a jab or possibly the suggestion that success in magic requires one to change their gender orientation????

While it is true, the magic world seems to have an above average sense of popularity among gay & bi-sexual people (primarily males), it certainly isn't requisite. That's akin to saying that all professional (male) Dancers are gay and I can assure you that this simply isn't the case. But then, I do know of many truck drivers and construction workers that fit the bill.

Maybe you've got things mixed up with shamanism? :twisted:



You commented in jest that wearing eye liner and grooming ones self in the morning was being a rebel and mainly to the eyeliner comment (for guys) i commented that, aswell as being a rebel, it would have to be a little hommosexual and if not homosexual just plain weird for one dude to apply a femmenine product such as eye liner. :oops:

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Postby MagicalSmithy » Aug 27th, '09, 01:04

madvillainy wrote:This thread sure took a peculiar twist.


Oh no...I have just taken not of the hideous mask represented in your Avatar...it is the helmet used by ridley scott to represent a gladiator and oh my god it is sooooo hostorically inaccurate I actually had a relapse looking at it...sorry daft hobby but i need ot go throw up now.

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Postby MagicalSmithy » Aug 27th, '09, 01:05

madvillainy wrote:This thread sure took a peculiar twist.


Oh no...I have just taken note of the hideous mask represented in your Avatar...it is the helmet used by Ridley Scott to represent a gladiator and oh my god it is sooooo historically inaccurate I actually had a relapse looking at it...sorry daft hobby of mine oh no oh god I need ot go throw up now. :twisted:

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Postby Replicant » Aug 27th, '09, 11:12

Is it? Looks to me like that weird mask thing from Saw.

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Postby madvillainy » Aug 27th, '09, 12:03

...No, you can stop your historically-inaccurate apoplexy, it isn't a Gladiator reference. It's this:

Image

It's an album - called "Madvillainy", coincidentally enough. For all I know, the mask could well be a film prop, but I don't think he picked it to annoy history buffs. That's MF Doom, he always wears masks when he performs - he changes them sporadically.

And I'm not really up on my Roman imperial history, but that film's biggest problem was not historical accuracy.

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