talkmagic.co.uk

Eshly wrote:

spooneythegoon wrote:that's interesting...






And, if you do effects that are yours and no-body has seen the masked nitwit expose, then your laughing! Like this ! It really shouldn't matter if the methods are the same, it just needs to look slightly different to whatever the masked muppet has put out there, and you'll be fine...

As you can tell, I can't quite decide on a name for the masked-not-a-real-magician that can be posted on a public forum!

I must disagree with you Spooney.


If people see exposure of Mentalism they will know it is all tricks and illusions, and not 'Psychological suggestion' or such like; or whatever story you use to explain you're powers.

But, many people also see Derren Brown's shows as a "mentalism revealed", they think he really tells them how he does it! That means they know it's all sugestion and psychology, and they will believe that whatever some random masked magician wannabe tells them.

pcwells wrote:More channels added daily, and a steadily diminishing number of viewers...

TV has well and truly lost its power. I very much doubt that this show will garner enough viewers to make a difference to our work.

Those who are concerned, though, would be well advised to watch it, and adapt their presentation and repertoire accordingly.

Pete

I heartily agree. This is much ado about absolutely nowt. A few half-forgotten images watched half-heartedly by a handful of know-it-alls is what we're talking about here. It precludes the idea that lay people don't really want to know how things are done in the same way that they don't want to know the end of a film or a book. Exposing large corporations or institutions gets massive audiences because they matter to the viewers. This doesn't, no matter how full of impact they try to make the show.

The secret to not being exposed is very simple indeed. Don't learn the trick as per the instructions. Strip it down and re-build it in your own image so that it doesn't resemble the original.

And didn't Paul Daniels once say "Never read the instructions"?

And didn't magic tricks and illusions once upon a time be supplied sans any instructions?

Mandrake wrote:And didn't magic tricks and illusions once upon a time be supplied sans any instructions?

Not much value for money with impromptu stuff then!

Mandrake wrote:And didn't magic tricks and illusions once upon a time be supplied sans any instructions?

Yeah. Magic is supposed to be a creative pass time. Create, already!

I see poor old James Biss is in mighty trouble over exposure. He gave a lecture to a group of sceptics and the whole thing was put on You Tube. He exposed several tricks that his detractors say didn't belong to him in the first place.
Anyway it has created an almighty fuss on the Magic Cafe. Knowing James as I do I am sure he is quite delighted over all the fuss.

Most know my position on this issue, I just thought I'd toss this link out because it was the first I've seen in a non-English format.

Tomo is on mark with what he's stated above GET CREATIVE! We have the tools, even the most elementary of basics found in Corinda, Annemann, etc. to build off of. Yet exceptionally few of us actually work at cultivating those twists & turns to both, plot & method that bring out a personal presentation that will (very rarely) be identified/understood by anyone other than a wise and learned magician/mentalist; "they" won't know what's what, when we do our job.

If people see exposure of Mentalism they will know it is all tricks and illusions, and not 'Psychological suggestion' or such like; or whatever story you use to explain you're powers.

This is an excuse offered by a rather inexperienced mind. ANY magic, in the hands of a studied and experienced performer, especially when it is a "pet" routine, will dumbfound and amuse even the most educated of minds... I've watched this happen first hand at the Castle night after night so I know it is a reality. When it comes to Mentalism, I can assure you that when an Old School worker applies some of those methods you think you know, you're likely to miss them simply because of how skilled they are at misdirection at the physical and psychological level.

It's just food for thought, nothing more!

I have been approached this year about heading up one of these type of shows for a network television station.

Obviously it was a BIG NO THANK YOU, and they also got my very strong thoughts on the subject.

I was their first phone call and it worries me that one day someone will say yes and at the same time remove the earning potential of so many performers in this field.

Regards

Paul Stockman

Ohh Christ!


Paul, was this a British Television show? What was the name of the producer, was it Brush Nash by any chance?

Craig Browning wrote:
This is an excuse offered by a rather inexperienced mind. ANY magic, in the hands of a studied and experienced performer, especially when it is a "pet" routine, will dumbfound and amuse even the most educated of minds... I've watched this happen first hand at the Castle night after night so I know it is a reality. When it comes to Mentalism, I can assure you that when an Old School worker applies some of those methods you think you know, you're likely to miss them simply because of how skilled they are at misdirection at the physical and psychological level.

It's just food for thought, nothing more!

You do have a good point. But it still worries me greatly. I honestly believe we, as in the professionals (whom I am not one of) should sue television producers like this. They damage livelihoods.

Its been done before and I think with enough support it would happen again.


I'm considering using Banachek's Black/White as a quick trick near the beggining of my routine, by holding up a large big of card as the prediction to the audience. The problem is that it COULD go wrong.

The advantage of this is that it genuinely IS psychological influence, the downside is, it can fail.




Also, please note, that they DO expose Psychological Forces. The 37 force was exposed on Street Magic Revealed a few years ago.

Eshly wrote:Also, please note, that they DO expose Psychological Forces. The 37 force was exposed on Street Magic Revealed a few years ago.

Do you imagine anyone who matched this so-called "Street Magic Revealed" programme can actually remember viewing said programme, let alone which "tricks" it revealed or what the great secrets were???

Honestly. Get over it. Once more, it's not the trick. It's you.

Also, there are much better ways of forcing a number than the 37 version - most exposed effects can be replaced by other ways of doing it so it's not really such a big problem.

You seem to be missing the point.

Yes one method that is exposed can be replaced by another.

But thats not the concern, its more about the fact that the general public now see just another magic trick and not something mysterious or psychological.

I have a chapter devoted to this subject in my up and coming book.

We really need to hold onto the last remaining section of mystery entertainment.

And yes it was a U.K television show. They are on the look out guys.

They offered me a six show special. Thats allot of material to give away.

We better start saving our pennies.

What's the problem with exposure? It has never done us any harm in the past, and will not do us any harm now. Everyone knows how to tell a joke. It doesn't stop them listening to comedians.

I've never really understood what the fuss is about with these shows. The only people I know who have even heard of the Masked Magician for example are other magicians, none of my non-magic friends have ever seen any of his shows or if they have they don't remember them. Most people just don't have the interest to sit through one of these and if they do they'll never remember how things are done. I don't think they're something that we really need to be all that much.