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I'll eat anything although do tend not to eat pork, not through any religious reasons of my own but mainly because, with my mum coming from a Muslim background we tended not to eat pork and that's just stuck with me.

EckoZero wrote:To be fair... most of the Jews I know will happily (maybe that's the wrong word) eat meat that they can't guarantee is Kosher because they don't want to be difficult.

Strict orthodox Jews might refuse but then they'll go for the vegetarian option (probably) but a lot of orthodox Jews are also fairly liberal.

Roni gave me a ham sandwich at last November's Tabula Mentis because I'd had no lunch!

greedoniz wrote:I eat all meat, love fur, fox hunting and harpooning whales

My favourite activity though is pointing at pious "meat is murder"type vegetarians wearing leather shoes or ignoring the slaughter of animals in the dairy industry.

I agree completely, but on the flipside I hate meateaters who think wearing fur and/or beastiallity is immoral. Either it's okay for animals to suffer for your enjoyment or it's not.

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:

greedoniz wrote:I eat all meat, love fur, fox hunting and harpooning whales

My favourite activity though is pointing at pious "meat is murder"type vegetarians wearing leather shoes or ignoring the slaughter of animals in the dairy industry.

I agree completely, but on the flipside I hate meateaters who think wearing fur and/or beastiallity is immoral. Either it's okay for animals to suffer for your enjoyment or it's not.

They don't suffer, they just die a bit...

No chickens do suffer when they're killed. I don't object to it but they do. What about cockfighting? Any meat eaters object to that?

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:No chickens do suffer when they're killed. I don't object to it but they do. What about cockfighting? Any meat eaters object to that?

Depends if we're still talking about chickens

You just made diet coke shoot out my nose!

I am Jew(ish). I can tell you those that stick strickly to the kosher rule probably won't eat much if they are in unfarmiliar territory. Just having meat on a plate that once had dairy on it can be an issue. Yes growing up we had two sets of plates, two sets of cupboards to put them in, we did not have two dishwashers, although I know people who do. As said before we don't like to cause trouble, (it finds us anyway) and would prefer in a social setting for people not to make a fuss so will usually go vegetarian and pick out what we want or don't want. Unfortunatly it is almost impossible to be stricktly kosher.

Me? I'll eat a bacon cheeseburger without batting an eye, or pepperoni pizza, mmm. I stay away from Veal because that is just cruel, I went for years without chicken but eventually gave up. However I won't eat the free range stuff as I feel they have the most to live for.

Farlsy did you get my PM?

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:No chickens do suffer when they're killed. I don't object to it but they do. What about cockfighting? Any meat eaters object to that?

Yes, I do, but then again I think quite a lot of people do and suspect your views about beastiality and cockfighting are formed specifically to raise eyebrows...

It depends whether you think you can raise and eat something with any respect.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going anthropopathic on your @ss - when I talk about "respect" it doesn't mean I think animals require the same dignities as humans (privacy when changing clothes, for example... ), and neither am I being naive in thinking that the raising and butchering of livestock doesn't involve some discomfort for the animals at various points but then, so does human life - sheep will never have to watch their parents die of Alzheimers. But I feel that minimising the discomfort when possible is one side of a respectful line, and making them fight to the death is the other.

I'm all for eating people with Alzheimers...is there a box to tick for that?

yeah, the cockfighting is just one of those extremist arguments people use to try and win a point...but I'm all for putting a bolt-gun to a cow's head and cooking its tasty carcass, and wearing its skin on my back and feet after sufficent curing, cutting and tanning and so forth...

if they did cow-toothpaste in a dainty leather tube, i might buy that too...though lamb would go best with mint obviously...

<jessicasimpson>

Vegetarians can eat chicken because chickens come from eggs not animals.

<jessicasimpson>

But my point is that chickens suffer less as cockfighters than when they're killed for food. If they're good at it they'll live longer, they're well fed, trained and put out to stud in old age. I'm not condemning anyone for eating meat, nor am I claiming any moral superiority just because I don't, animals suffer and die so I can eat and I don't care.

What I don't understand is people who say it's fine to kill animals for food but not fur, sex or sport, and I'm politely asking whats the difference?
Once again I'm not attacking anyone for eating meat, and I'm not trying to be provocative, I am aware that its a provocative issue but I didn't start this thread.

I'm perfectly happy with eating meat, wearing fur, using leather, etc. etc.

I'm also concerned about animal welfare. Not rights, welfare. Animals don't have rights; humans have the responsibility to take good care of any animals in their care. The difference comes down to the fact that animals have no sense of morality, and humans do.

Properly farmed animals are healthy and happy (whatever "happy" means to a cow, pig, chicken, or whatever) through their lifespans. They have no conception of death or slavery or anything else that the bunny-hugging crowd think they worry about. They don't look into the future and wonder what might happen when it's their turn to be taken away.

They can suffer stress in transit to the slaughterhouse and before being killed. Good modern abattoirs minimise this stress as much as possible. If nothing else, stressed animals produce lower-quality meat; there's also the risk of them lashing out or breaking loose if they're frightened.

The farming and slaughtering trades work very closely with animal behaviour researchers to improve the quality of life for domesticated animals right up to the moment of their death. For instance, giving an animal a choice of nest material, flooring, group size, etc. lets us ask the animal directly what it prefers. We can even ask how important the preference is by seeing how much the animal will "pay" (in work) for its choice.

By the way, British veal (pink veal) is not cruelly farmed, so you can eat it with a clear conscience.

Robbie wrote:Properly farmed animals are healthy and happy (whatever "happy" means to a cow, pig, chicken, or whatever) through their lifespans. They have no conception of death or slavery or anything else that the bunny-hugging crowd think they worry about. They don't look into the future and wonder what might happen when it's their turn to be taken away.

You've obviously never seen Chicken Run!